Commons:Deletion requests/File:Collins with Bobby Fischer.jpg

This image was probably taken in the 50's or 60's, which makes pd-user questionable at best. User has a history of deletion requests on enwp. grillo (talk) 09:46, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The photo must be from the med 1950s. User Collinskids1912 gave the pd-user statement. I went to look at other contributions, but there is no such account. Actually there is an account on the English WP, just no user page. Bubba73 (talk) 14:18, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• • Fisher was born in '43. How old is he here? He was 17 years old in 1960 - I'd guess he might be a year or so younger here, but he to me more like a late teen than a pre-teen. -- Infrogmation (talk) 16:01, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think he is older than 13 in the photo. By the time he was 17 he looked a lot different. He even looked differently at 15, maybe 14. Here he is at 17 in 1960. Bubba73 (talk) 22:38, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• • • This photo says that he was 13, and he looks older this one than the one with Collins. Bubba73 (talk) 22:46, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • The book Endgame by Frank Brady has the photo with Collins and says tht he was 14. That makes it probably 1957. Bubba73 (talk) 22:52, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• • • • This photo was published in a book!? What does the photo credit say? -- Infrogmation (talk) 03:54, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Like most of the early pictures of Bobby Fischer in the book, they say "MCF photo". Note that "photo" is not capitalized. I don't know what "MCF" is, but CF likely stands for "chess federation" or "chess foundation". Bubba73 (talk) 23:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

•  Keep Seems to be a family photo of chess player Jack Collins (John William Collins). User:Collinskids1912 is/was a valid account on en:Wikipedia, though they seem not to have been active since 2007. While more specifics about the photo would be good, I'm not sure what the reason is to challenge uploader's the license claim. -- Infrogmation (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • You really believe that the uploader took the photo him/herself in the 1950's? "1912" in the user name might indicate this, but then it's highly unlikely that the person would be alive to create a WP account and upload the image... The user also has a history of copyvios. /grillo (talk) 16:19, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Now that I think about it the user is probably a shared account of the pupils of Jack Collins. See also en:File:Reykjavik_1972.jpg, en:File:Collins Kids in Israel.jpg, en:File:JWC with Ethel and Clara.jpg, en:File:Collins Kids in Iceland.jpg, en:File:Collins1912-2001.jpg. It doesn't seem likely that they would inherit his ownership of the photos, if he even owned the rights to them in the first place. No sources are mentioned in any picture. /grillo (talk) 16:26, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I expressed my skepticism about your lack of specific reason for listing for deletion. I do not find helpful your asking "do you really believe" without explaining why it should be disbelieved. If I may take a guess at your unstated subtext, perhaps you find it incredible that people could take snapshots years ago and then upload them to Wikimedia decades later? I find nothing incredible about that per se, having done so myself. If you have any particular reason beyond that, please state it. You have now added the claim "The user also has a history of copyvios" which would be a very good reason for deletion listing - however a look at the user's deleted edits shows a couple of articles on en:W deleted for lack of notability, but I have not succeeded in finding "a history of copyvios"; if there is evidence for this charge please tell me where to find it, thanks. -- Infrogmation (talk) 03:54, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think I made the reason clearer in my second post above. It seems the images are a collection of images that relate to Collins and were possibly owned (either the rights or physical copies) by him and inherited by his pupils (?). It's probably not uncommon for people to have photo albums with pictures like my examples above in them. That doesn't mean they own the rights for them, and it doesn't mean that the someone who inherited the physical photo album inherited the rights either. Also, as I said, it seems extremely improbable that someone who is alive today would have taken these photos that seem to range from the 20's to the 50's and the 60's. It also seems unlikely that all of them would be taken by the same person. The picture in this deletion request for example seems to have been taken by a family member of Collins for example. I could buy the reasoning if the pictures were taken in the 70's or 80's, but when they are this old I get skeptical, especially without any source information and the wide variety of motives. /grillo (talk) 04:03, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thanks for your reply. Maybe "inherited by his pupils", but for all either of us know could have been taken by one of his pupils, who uploaded it. I hope info on the publication might settle the question! Cheers, -- Infrogmation (talk) 04:13, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • You think he had pupils when he was still a teenager? /grillo (talk) 12:10, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • I don't understand the relevance of your question. Chess teacher Jack Collins would have been in his 30s at the time. -- Infrogmation (talk) 20:19, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • You're completely right, I mixed them up... /grillo (talk) 07:37, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • User:Bubba73 has stated that this image has been published in a book! More information about that requested; I will change my vote or even speedy delete if information provided warrants. -- Infrogmation (talk)
      • A black and white version was published in the book. Since the one uploaded is in color, it could not have been copied from the book. Also, the book was published in 2011 and the file was uploaded in 2007. Bubba73 (talk) 15:01, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: apparently ok FASTILY 09:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]