Quite frankly this assertion is a pile of bilge! It likely comes from an occultist or mystical source but certainly not a mainline academic source.

Zoroastrianism is unique in that Ahura Mazda unlike any God of other monotheistic religions is absolutely transcendent and is similar in that respect is a Deist concept of the divine.

To assert theism, panentheism or pantheism runs counter to everything that distinguishes Zoroastrianism from other religions.

If there are no objections I'll start working on a properly referenced clean-up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.197 (talk) 10:00, 16 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

Not really, saying that it is deism is much more likely to be false than pantheist. It would be more correct to consider it panentheism, with Ahura Mazda beeing the good aspect and evil beeing the ausence or corruption of good (druj). Deism would violate the zoro concepr of day of judgement, afterlife and prophecy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.9.179.230 (talk) 13:22, 31 August 2013 (UTC)Reply

To add the word "arguably" in the first sentence, so it would read: "Zoroastrianism.....is an ancient Iranian religion and a religious philosophy, and arguably the first monotheistic religion in the world....", as there are no source mentioned for the claim that Zoroastrianism is the first monotheistic religion in the world. 79.179.181.217 (talk) 12:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: Please read UNDUE and EDITORIALIZING. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:04, 4 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

The article says that Zoroastrianism was the world first monotheistic religion, however this is totally wrong. The Iranian prophet lived around the 6th century BC. Moses predates this man so how is Zoroastrianism the first monotheistic religion? Please correct this it would be more correct to say one of the first instead of the first. Thank You! 129.115.2.122 (talk) 23:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 23:56, 5 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

It was not the first monotheistic religion, that was Judaism. Jgayaldo (talk) 19:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Actually, Judaism is usually seen as one of a few surviving offshoots of the older Israelite religion (Samaritanism and Christianity being two others), and the Israelite religion before the Second temple era was probably Henotheistic. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 22:26, 9 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

"Zoroaster's ideas led to a formal religion bearing his name by about the 6th century BCE and have influenced other later religions including Judaism"

Certainly Judaism and its monotheism predates the 6th century BCE. Supporting statements for Zoroastrianism predating "Judaism" above are speculative. Also, Christianity and Samaritanism themselves were offshoots of a religion clearly identified as Judaism, not a common ancient Israelite religion. To preserve this statement without evidence or reject the addition of qualifiers as "undue or editorializing" shows bias.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.132.90 (talk) 16:42, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

You know, if you actually read this discussion, you'd've seen that I already answered that. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:44, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

In light of you editing your position: the pages I summarized and linked to cite sources for those claims. Please cite a reliable source for your claims. Again, the academic consensus is that the modern religion Judaism dates to the second temple period, as the central branch of the Israelite religion. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ian, thank you for your welcoming and polite comment. I am new to this tool and do not know how to edit inline, nor did I see the bottom section when posting my own. Hopefully you will agree that your use of the term Judaism, as well as the reference in the article, are ambiguous and arbitrary. Do you mean to suggest that there was nothing known as Judaism prior to Second Temple Judaism? Can you cite the exact moment when Judaism would be universally acknowledged as monotheistic, or only provide an upper bound that is roughly at the 6th century BCE? Unless the author can, statements should be qualified or removed, rather than insisting on citations to the contrary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.132.90 (talk) 17:10, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

If you check the articles I linked to, you'll see that prior to Second Temple Judaism, the Israelite religion was probably henotheistic, and during the Second Temple period, there were a number of different groups that died off, or evolved (with some merging between groups) into Judaism, Christianity, and Samaritanism. And asking for exact moments in the bronze age is often like asking someone to find a dark grey needle in the night sky.

And because there are citations for current article material, you do need sources to the contrary. Even then, it probably won't result in the removal of the statements you have an issue with, that position and yours will be presented as different claims. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

There is a serious problem with the article. It is the last sentence of the opening paragraph. Of course I really don't expect, much being that Wikipedia is known for bias as pretty much everything written is, but that does not give us a reason not to be objective about writing. That being stated, I have a riddle how does a man that lived around the 6th century b.c. have any influence on a man that lived around 1000 years prior to him? Answer, he does not. Just because one quotes a source from penguin does not mean the source is true. Stop trying to say this faith came before Judaism and had any influence on it, the simple dates and numbers don't add up. That being stated Christianity was influenced by Judaism and not only influenced by Judaism but sprang forth from Judaism. So tell me how Zoroaster influenced this faith? Answer he did not. You can see the logic can't you. So I really don't have to waste time and effort on the Muslim faith do I. So why am I writing this way, because this is the second time I requested something be done yet nothing happened. The first request was very similar to this in that I called the original writer of the article out yet somebody had to insert their opinion on the second edit. Why don't people just study and be real with the historical documents and not state things that are clearly bogus. Of course I do not expect this to be changed until weeks later why??? Because people want to push fake data instead of real data. Whatever. On the slight chance somebody actually looks at the data objectively and not come to bogus conclusions and post the truth. I applaud you! If not o well. Back to the drawing board. 75.1.185.210 (talk) 04:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Great enthusiasm, but it would be easier to handle if you backed it up with sources and stated exactly what you believe should be changed. Did you consider creating an account? Sam Sailor ^Sing 06:11, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

There is no good reason to believe that Zoroaster lived in the 6th century BC. He probably lived considerably earlier than that. In any case, the arguments about the influence on Judaism concern the period when Israel/Judea was part of the Persian empire, and the emergence of forms of apocalyptic literature which contain concepts quite different from those in the Torah, such as the idea of an "evil" Satan and his minions in some kind of eternal struggle against God. This is quite mainstream, and has nothing to do with bias in Wikipedia. It is easily cited to scholarly sources. None of this has anything to do with the "Muslim faith". The only connection is that Persian Shiite Islam was influenced by Zoroastrian traditions. And, of course, it is worth adding that most scholars do not believe that the Torah was written by Moses (I assume he's the person you mean by the "man that lived around 1000 years prior to him"), but rather that it dates from various periods, including the post-exilic era. See the entries on the Book of Genesis and Book of Exodus, for example. Paul B (talk) 13:23, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

P.202 of Boyce does not discuss Judaism at all. The closest mention of Judaism (p.194-195) does NOT discuss influence of Judaism on Zoroastrianism, but the other way around. It barely mentions Christianity's much later influence on modern Zoroastrianism. Page 202 discusses influence only so far as the increased role of Anahita. It is WP:UNDUE weight to pretend Boyce justifies the appearance of equal influence onto Zoroastrianism.

The second source, Peter Clarke, which has the context completely chopped up, only says "There are so many features that Zoroastrianism seems to share with the Judeo-Christian tradition that it would be difficult to ... Historically the first point of contact that we can determine is when the Achaemenian Cyrus conquered Babylon ..539 BC." There is absolutely nothing in there saying that Zoroastrianism was influenced by Judaism, only that there are shared traits, only stating that the first point that one religion could have influenced the other (without saying which influenced which) was 539 BC.

This is going beyond WP:OR into dishonest stubbornness. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:54, 1 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Firstly, there was three sources presented there. The two which I added both discuss possible cultural interchange between the faiths. This theory is one without much evidence as it stands, and only states the possible influence of both faiths on each other when they came into contact during period of Cyrus the Great and the Achaemenid Empire. Cyrus is described in many sources, Bibilical and non-Biblical, as being a tolerant leader of minority groups in his empire. He is known to have allowed the Jews in Babylon to have returned to Judah. Judaism pre-dates Zorastrianism by around 1000 years. The existence of a strong monotheist current in the Kingdom of Israel, and later Judah, is known from the Biblical accounts (and specifically with the conflict between this group and polytheist elements within ancient Israeli society. The first recorded mention of the existence of any Zoroastrians or their religion isn't until the 6th century BCE, interestingly right around the time Jewish elites were forced into exile in Babylon.

I included these sources because the article as it stands has an unbalanced perspective that only Zoroastrianism influenced subsequent faiths (i.e. the influence was unidirectional), which is unsupported. I only wish to help clarify the situation by merely stating how there is a theory that some shared traits between the faiths may be due to an exchange of ideas if Judaism came into significant contact with Zoroastrianism.

I personally believe that either Zoroastrian texts borrowed significantly from Christianity at a later date, or that Judaism had the influence on Zoroastrianism, given the older age of Judaism, as well as the later highly strict monotheism that developed which is the basis for the other major monotheistic faiths. Additionally, Zoroastrianism is much more dualistic, and has texts which contain elements of polytheistic worship to other deities simply not found in Abrahamic traditions. In Zoroastrianism's texts for example, Zoroaster prays to other ancient Iranian deities/divinities to interfere in worldly affairs. There is a plethora of divinities (known as Yashts) found throughout the texts corresponding to different elements of the natural world (animals, water, fire, etc.), just as in many polytheistic and animistic traditions - nothing like this is found in the Abrahamic traditions. Epf (talk) 12:40, 1 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

Here is one source from the Jewish Encyclopedia which essentially sums up some of the debate on the cultural contact between Judaism and Zoroastrianism which has resulted in the shared traits between the two. There are essentially two radical ends to the argument, with each favouring the influence of one faith on the other, and a third moderate argument stating an equal influence (or an influence from a third, unknown source):

"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."

Epf (talk) 15:39, 1 August 2014 (UTC)Reply