Talk:SS Irish Willow (1917)

• ... that on 16 March 1942 (the day before St Patrick's Day), St Patrick was toasted in the conning tower of U-boat U-753 as they awaited orders from Germany whether or not to sink the Irish Willow

• ALT1:... the Empire Breeze was torpedoed and its crew were in lifeboats, in dense fog, search and rescue missions by the rescue ship Stockport, the rescue tug HMS Frisky (W 11) and the Canadian corvette HMCS Rosthern (K 169) were all abandoned. They were rescued by the Irish Willow (using direction finding equipment rather than dead reckoning).

Created by Lugnad (talk). Self-nominated at 16:15, 1 May 2015 (UTC).Reply

Lugnad (talk) 16:18, 1 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

The infobox could be consolidated, per SS Irish Oak (1919). Other than that, each subsection could be expanded by the addition of call signs, official numbers etc. These can be found via Plimsoll Ship Data copies of Lloyd's Register. Mjroots (talk) 08:16, 3 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

thinking of adding - or is it too trivial?

Signal, the house magazine for Irish Shipping Ltd., has observed that some of the crew of the Irish Willow were. in maritime parlance, "lucky". The autumn 1980 issue published a photo of James Brown and Laurence Burke, crewmen on the Irish Willow, captioned "Lucky Duo".

Guy Travers Lee was the first officer on the Irish Willow. Previously he had been second officer on the Irish Pine. On 15 November 1943, the Irish Pine was sunk by U-968 and her crew of 33 were lost. Guy hoped to be a captain. He was sitting exams to obtain his Masters Certificate, and had to be excused from that last tragic voyage. He was successful and received his masters' Certificate and, in time, had his own command. In a voyage, which received a lot of publicity at the time, on 1 November 1968 The Irish Rose sailed with humanitarian supplies for Biafra during the Nigerian civil war. Captain Guy Travers Lee was master of the Irish Rose.

Lawrence Burke of Clouherhead, should have been on the Irish Pine as well. But, was not roistered. Before the Irish Pine he crewed with the Kyleclare. On 23 February 1943 the Kyleclare and her entire crew of 18 were lost. U-456 ,Kapitanleutnant Max Teichert claimed that he had not seen Kyleclare’s neutrality markings as she was so low in the water, listing to starboard and his periscope was awash. Again - Lawrence Burke had not been roistered.

James Brown of Arklow should also have been on the Kyleclare. He was first on the City of Waterford. She was in convoy OG-71 and was accidentally rammed and sunk by the tug-boat Thames. James Brown was on the companion way with Captain Thomas Aplin and Edward Kearney. They both died. James was thrown into the sea and was rescued by HMS Deptford. He was transferred to the rescue ship Walmer Castle. Then the Walmer Castle was bombed and sunk, 31 died including 5 survivors from the City of Waterford. James Brown survived. He was then assigned to the Kyleclare, also on the Lisbon run. The Kyleclare travelled out-of-convoy. He made eight “Lisbon runs”. He injured his hand in a fall off a ladder. Still, he reported for duty, but was sent to hospital where fractures were confirmed by X-ray. He was not aboard when U-456 fired three torpedoes sinking the Kyleclare and killing all 18 aboard.

should this be added - or is it trivial? = Lugnad (talk) 03:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

It is all very interesting. I say go ahead. One could argue that a person could perhaps find similar stories of lucky crewmen for just about any ship involved in war, but seeing as you've already done so here, why not put it in? Just make sure it's well-sourced. Thanks, --Ken Gallager (talk) 14:42, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

Trivial, indeed but I don't think it is too trivial. However, it is probably too detailed for the overall length of the article at present and as Ken Gallager| says make sure it is well sourced. BTW, do you have many issues of Signal? My uncle was in Irish Shipping and it would be interesting to see what mentions there are. ww2censor (talk) 21:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

re Signal, Aiden McCabe has (I believe) all of them. do you need contact info? Lugnad (talk) 21:19, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

Please just send the info to my email, which you can use from my user page. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 21:41, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

I think a brief summary, well referenced, would be interesting without being too trivial for inclusion. "Roistered" is a new use of the word for me - in my understanding it means to caper or celebrate (as in Ralph Roister Doister, the first comedy written in English - in 1552). Do you mean "rostered"? Even so, I would use a plain English term, like "on board".

I've said it before, but I'll say it here for all to see - I think this is a really great article about a interesting and significant subject. Well done Lugnad for your great work! Shem (talk) 21:46, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

I should have said rostered, in fact i probably did, but then let the spell checker "correct"

Shem, I am glad that you liked the article Lugnad (talk) 01:06, 5 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

Id say it was worthy of inclusion, but maybe trim it down a bit. You can say "lucky" as it's a direct quote. Mjroots (talk) 06:14, 5 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

There have been quite a few recent changes, which is good, but there are some possible misunderstandings.

• the exchange of letters in London, mentioned in the soviet court case, does say "bunkering", although coal was very scarce in Ireland at the time. Ships usually went first to a UK port to load coal.
• John McEvoy (in Dublin) had diplomatic status. He was appointed and letters presented before the Russian invasion. It was Herbert Martinson, (in Switzerland) who lacked status, which is why he was described as "an Estonian national, resident in Switzerland"
• spelling honourary - as it is not an American article, Irish-English was specified, so there should be a "u" - except for the direct quote from the President of Estonia - which lacks the u.
• The Latvian ship Everoja carried Irish cargoes, but was registered in London, sailed under the Red Ensign, in convoy, she was armed and carried a RN gun crew

Thanks to all editors Lugnad (talk) 20:03, 3 June 2015 (UTC) Lugnad (talk) 00:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)Reply