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1882

"The 1882 edition of dictionary of dialects Preußisches Wörterbuch includes Mundart der Elbinger Höhe using this wording."

which is: H. Frischbier's Preußisches Wörterbuch: Ost- und westpreußische Provinzialismen in alphabetischer Folge, vol. I: A — K, Berlin, 1882

Where? On p. XIV (section Abkürzungen) it mentions:
"Spook. Datt Spook. Mundart der Elbinger Höhe. Von D. Neue Pr. Prov.-Bl. IV 470 475 [Auch als Sonderabdruck im Verlage von Neumann-Hartmann in Elbing o. J. erschienen. Die Zahlen bezeichnen die Seitenzahlen der Prov.-Bl.]
So that's:
Mundart der Elbinger Höhe. Mitgetheilt von D. Datt Spook, in: Neue Preußische Provinzial-Blätter. Mit Beiträgen von [...]. Im Namen der Alterthums-Gesellschaft Prussia herausgegeben von Dr. A. Hagen. Jahrgang 1847. Juli – December. / Band IV., Königsberg, 1847, p. 470–475 ([4])
That's also mentioned elsehwere, e.g. in:
Twöschen Wiessel on Noacht. Plattdietsche Gedichte von Robert Dorr, Neumann-Hartmannsche Buchhandlung, Elbing, 1862, at the end at "In demselben Verlage erschien: [...]" ([5])
Relevance? If Frischbier only cites the title of another work and doesn't write about a dialect or the classification of dialects, it has no scientific relevance, no scientific back-up. The author could have called it "Datt Spook in the best Prussian dialect" and in case of proper citing one would have to copy it, but that wouldn't mean it's really the best Prussian dialect.

--10:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DE:3726:EF88:940E:866B:DF45:F8F3 (talk)

Elbing

From the article:

In Elbing, no German dialect was spoken for long.^[1]

Per Ziesemer (and others like Wiesinger and Heinel),^[2]^[3]^[4] in Elbing (and Pr. Holland, Marienburg, Freystadt, Deutsch Eylau etc.) the High Prussian dialect Oberländisch was spoken, while the Elbinger Höhe (lit. Elbingian Height) is north/north-east of Elbing (maybe see also this map). Hence: Even though Mitzka's statement isn't wrong, it's unrelated as this article is about the dialect of the Elbinger Höhe and not about the High Prussian dialect Oberländisch which was spoken in Elbing.

References

^ Mitzka, Walther. Grundzüge nordostdeutscher Sprachgeschichte. N. G. Elwert Verlag, Marburg, 1959, p. 131 (originally: Max Niemeyer Verlag, Halle/Saale, 1937)
^ Walther Ziesemer, Die ostpreußischen Mundarten. Proben und Darstellung, Ferdinand Hirt, Breslau 1924, p. 121 and map Die ostpreußischen Mundarten ([1])
^ Peter Wiesinger, Zur Entwicklungsgeschichte der hochpreußischen Mundarten, in: Peter Wiesinger, edited by Franz Patocka, Strukturelle historische Dialektologie des Deutschen: Strukturhistorische und strukturgeographische Studien zur Vokalentwicklung deutscher Dialekte, Georg Olms Verlag, Hildesheim / Zürich / New York, 2017, p. 475ff., here p. 475 ([2])
^ E. Heinel, Erinnerungen. 2. Die Stadt Marienburg, in: Neue Preußische Provinzial-Blätter. Jahrgang 1849. Juli – December, Königsberg, 1849, p. 161ff., here p. 174 ([3])

--2003:DE:3700:672F:8567:9BE6:1822:E107 (talk) 01:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Low German vs. East Low German

Regarding edits like this, this and this, they are:

A Violation of WP:NPOV: Pushing one view ("it's Northern LG/Southern LG"), removing other common and sourced views ("it's West LG/East LG").
A Violation of WP:WEIGHT: There's a single source for the concept "Northern Low German" (A. Lameli given in the article, who only covered post-1990 Germany and not Low German in the Netherlands, East Pomerania or West and East Prussia). For East Low German there are many sources, several of them were provided and also are by famous linguists (like P. Wiesinger, D. Stellmacher) published by famous publishers (like Walter de Gruyter).^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6]^[7]^[8]
A Violation of WP:OR and WP:VERIFY: No source was provided that Low Prussian is Northern Low German (Lameli doesn't cover it).
Ignoring WP:RELIABILITY, esp. "Prefer secondary sources" and "When relying on primary sources, extreme caution is advised": Lameli's study is a primary source (and BTW so is Heeringa's doctor thesis used in other articles).

And regarding the claim "I have foundedly rejected this concept [West/East Low German] and you know this": Nowhere that I know of this was foundedly rejected. Rejected it was by referring to Lameli and having the above flaws (WP:NPOV, WP:WEIGHT, WP:OR/WP:VERIFY, WP:RELIABILITY).

References

^ Peter Wiesinger, Die Einteilung der deutschen Dialekte, in: Dialektologie: Ein Handbuch zur deutschen und allgemeinen Dialektforschung, edited by Werner Besch, Ulrich Knoop, Wolfgang Putschke, Herbert Ernst Wiegand, 2nd vol., Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / New York, 1983, p. 807ff., here p. 823, 826ff. & 830 (incl. maps 47.2, 47.3 and 47.4)
^ Dieter Stellmacher, Niederdeutsch: Formen und Forschungen (series: Reihe Germanistische Linguistik 31, edited by Helmut Henne, Horst Sitta, Herbert Ernst Wiegand), Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 1981, p. 12
^ Dieter Stellmacher, Ostniederdeutsch, in: Lexikon der Germanistischen Linguistik, edited by Hans Peter Althaus, Helmut Henne, Herbert Ernst Wiegand, 2nd ed., Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 1980, p. 464ff., here p. 464f. & 467
^ Peter von Polenz, Geschichte der deutschen Sprache. 10th ed., edited by Norbert Richard Wolf, Walter de Gruyter, Berlin / New York, 2009, p. 27; 11th ed., edited by Norbert Richard Wolf, Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / Boston, 2020, p. 50
^ Hermann Niebaum, Jürgen Macha, Einführung in die Dialektologie des Deutschen, 2nd ed., Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 2006, p. 220f.
^ Stephen Barbour, Patrick Stevenson, Variation in German: A critical approach to German sociolinguistics, Cambridge University Press, 1990, p. 85f.
^ Michael Elmentaler, Anja Voeste, Areale Variation im Deutschen historisch: Mittelalter und Frühe Neuzeit, in: Sprache und Raum: Ein internationales Handbuch der Sprachvariation. Band 4: Deutsch, edited by Joachim Herrgen and Jürgen Erich Schmidt with assistance by Hanna Fischer and Brigitte Ganswindt, series: Handbücher zur Sprach- und Kommunikationswissenschaft (Handbooks of Linguistics and Communication Science / Manuels de linguistique et des sciences de communication) (HSK) 30.4, Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / Boston, 2019, p. 61ff., having the subsections Westniederdeutsch (Westfälisch, Ostfälisch, Nordniederdeutsch) on p. 71ff. and Ostniederdeutsch (Brandenburgisch, Mecklenburgisch, Vorpommersch, Mittelpommersch, Ostpommersch, Niederpreußisch) on p. 73ff. [note: already the sub-chapter titles mention West and East Low German with their sub-dialcts]
^ Helmut Glück, Michael Rödel (eds.), Metzler Lexikon Sprache, 5th ed., J. B. Metzler Verlag: Stuttgart, 2016, p. 488 s.v. Ostpommersch [note: entry is about Ostpommersch, but also mentions East Low German and the other sub-dialects]

--01:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

[1] Mitzka, Walther. Grundzüge nordostdeutscher Sprachgeschichte. N. G. Elwert Verlag, Marburg, 1959, p. 131 (originally: Max Niemeyer Verlag, Halle/Saale, 1937)

[2] Walther Ziesemer, Die ostpreußischen Mundarten. Proben und Darstellung, Ferdinand Hirt, Breslau 1924, p. 121 and map Die ostpreußischen Mundarten ([1])

[3] Peter Wiesinger, Zur Entwicklungsgeschichte der hochpreußischen Mundarten, in: Peter Wiesinger, edited by Franz Patocka, Strukturelle historische Dialektologie des Deutschen: Strukturhistorische und strukturgeographische Studien zur Vokalentwicklung deutscher Dialekte, Georg Olms Verlag, Hildesheim / Zürich / New York, 2017, p. 475ff., here p. 475 ([2])

[4] E. Heinel, Erinnerungen. 2. Die Stadt Marienburg, in: Neue Preußische Provinzial-Blätter. Jahrgang 1849. Juli – December, Königsberg, 1849, p. 161ff., here p. 174 ([3])

[5] Peter Wiesinger, Die Einteilung der deutschen Dialekte, in: Dialektologie: Ein Handbuch zur deutschen und allgemeinen Dialektforschung, edited by Werner Besch, Ulrich Knoop, Wolfgang Putschke, Herbert Ernst Wiegand, 2nd vol., Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / New York, 1983, p. 807ff., here p. 823, 826ff. & 830 (incl. maps 47.2, 47.3 and 47.4)

[6] Dieter Stellmacher, Niederdeutsch: Formen und Forschungen (series: Reihe Germanistische Linguistik 31, edited by Helmut Henne, Horst Sitta, Herbert Ernst Wiegand), Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 1981, p. 12

[7] Dieter Stellmacher, Ostniederdeutsch, in: Lexikon der Germanistischen Linguistik, edited by Hans Peter Althaus, Helmut Henne, Herbert Ernst Wiegand, 2nd ed., Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 1980, p. 464ff., here p. 464f. & 467

[8] Peter von Polenz, Geschichte der deutschen Sprache. 10th ed., edited by Norbert Richard Wolf, Walter de Gruyter, Berlin / New York, 2009, p. 27; 11th ed., edited by Norbert Richard Wolf, Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / Boston, 2020, p. 50

[9] Hermann Niebaum, Jürgen Macha, Einführung in die Dialektologie des Deutschen, 2nd ed., Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 2006, p. 220f.

[10] Stephen Barbour, Patrick Stevenson, Variation in German: A critical approach to German sociolinguistics, Cambridge University Press, 1990, p. 85f.

[11] Michael Elmentaler, Anja Voeste, Areale Variation im Deutschen historisch: Mittelalter und Frühe Neuzeit, in: Sprache und Raum: Ein internationales Handbuch der Sprachvariation. Band 4: Deutsch, edited by Joachim Herrgen and Jürgen Erich Schmidt with assistance by Hanna Fischer and Brigitte Ganswindt, series: Handbücher zur Sprach- und Kommunikationswissenschaft (Handbooks of Linguistics and Communication Science / Manuels de linguistique et des sciences de communication) (HSK) 30.4, Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / Boston, 2019, p. 61ff., having the subsections Westniederdeutsch (Westfälisch, Ostfälisch, Nordniederdeutsch) on p. 71ff. and Ostniederdeutsch (Brandenburgisch, Mecklenburgisch, Vorpommersch, Mittelpommersch, Ostpommersch, Niederpreußisch) on p. 73ff. [note: already the sub-chapter titles mention West and East Low German with their sub-dialcts]

[12] Helmut Glück, Michael Rödel (eds.), Metzler Lexikon Sprache, 5th ed., J. B. Metzler Verlag: Stuttgart, 2016, p. 488 s.v. Ostpommersch [note: entry is about Ostpommersch, but also mentions East Low German and the other sub-dialects]

[1]

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 {{reflist-talk}}
 --[[Special:Contributions/2003:DE:3700:672F:8567:9BE6:1822:E107|2003:DE:3700:672F:8567:9BE6:1822:E107]] ([[User talk:2003:DE:3700:672F:8567:9BE6:1822:E107|talk]]) 01:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
+==[[Northern Low German]] vs. [[East Low German]]==
+Regarding edits like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elbingian&diff=prev&oldid=1191318945 this], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nehrungisch&diff=prev&oldid=1191318614 this] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Westk%C3%A4slausch&diff=prev&oldid=1191318499 this], they are:
+* A Violation of [[WP:NPOV]]: Pushing one view ("it's [[Northern Low German|Northern LG]]/[[Southern Low German|Southern LG]]"), removing other common and sourced views ("it's [[West Low German|West LG]]/[[East Low German|East LG]]").
+* A Violation of [[WP:WEIGHT]]: There's a single source for the concept "[[Northern Low German]]" (A. Lameli given in the article, who only covered post-1990 Germany and not Low German in the Netherlands, East Pomerania or West and East Prussia). For [[East Low German]] there are many sources, several of them were provided and also are by famous linguists (like [[Peter Wiesinger|P. Wiesinger]], [[de:Dieter Stellmacher|D. Stellmacher]]) published by famous publishers (like [[De Gruyter|Walter de Gruyter]]).<ref>[[Peter Wiesinger]], ''Die Einteilung der deutschen Dialekte'', in: ''Dialektologie: Ein Handbuch zur deutschen und allgemeinen Dialektforschung'', edited by Werner Besch, Ulrich Knoop, Wolfgang Putschke, Herbert Ernst Wiegand, 2nd vol., [[De Gruyter|Walter de Gruyter]]: Berlin / New York, 1983, p. 807ff., here p. 823, 826ff. & 830 (incl. maps ''47.2'', ''47.3'' and ''47.4'')</ref><ref>[[de:Dieter Stellmacher|Dieter Stellmacher]], ''Niederdeutsch: Formen und Forschungen'' (series: ''Reihe Germanistische Linguistik 31'', edited by Helmut Henne, Horst Sitta, Herbert Ernst Wiegand), [[de:Max Niemeyer Verlag|Max Niemeyer Verlag]]: Tübingen, 1981, p. 12</ref><ref>Dieter Stellmacher, ''Ostniederdeutsch'', in: ''Lexikon der Germanistischen Linguistik'', edited by Hans Peter Althaus, Helmut Henne, Herbert Ernst Wiegand, 2nd ed., Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 1980, p. 464ff., here p. 464f. & 467</ref><ref>[[de:Peter von Polenz|Peter von Polenz]], ''Geschichte der deutschen Sprache.'' 10th ed., edited by Norbert Richard Wolf, Walter de Gruyter, Berlin / New York, 2009, p. 27; 11th ed., edited by Norbert Richard Wolf, Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / Boston, 2020, p. 50</ref><ref>Hermann Niebaum, [[de:Jürgen Macha|Jürgen Macha]], ''Einführung in die Dialektologie des Deutschen'', 2nd ed., Max Niemeyer Verlag: Tübingen, 2006, p. 220f.</ref><ref>Stephen Barbour, Patrick Stevenson, ''Variation in German: A critical approach to German sociolinguistics'', [[Cambridge University Press]], 1990, p. 85f.</ref><ref>[[de:Michael Elmentaler|Michael Elmentaler]], [[de:Anja Voeste|Anja Voeste]], ''Areale Variation im Deutschen historisch: Mittelalter und Frühe Neuzeit'', in: ''Sprache und Raum: Ein internationales Handbuch der Sprachvariation. Band 4: Deutsch'', edited by Joachim Herrgen and Jürgen Erich Schmidt with assistance by Hanna Fischer and Brigitte Ganswindt, series: ''Handbücher zur Sprach- und Kommunikationswissenschaft (Handbooks of Linguistics and Communication Science / Manuels de linguistique et des sciences de communication)'' (HSK) 30.4, Walter de Gruyter: Berlin / Boston, 2019, p. 61ff., having the subsections ''Westniederdeutsch (Westfälisch, Ostfälisch, Nordniederdeutsch)'' on p. 71ff. and ''Ostniederdeutsch (Brandenburgisch, Mecklenburgisch, Vorpommersch, Mittelpommersch, Ostpommersch, Niederpreußisch)'' on p. 73ff. [note: already the sub-chapter titles mention West and East Low German with their sub-dialcts]</ref><ref>[[de:Helmut Glück|Helmut Glück]], Michael Rödel (eds.), ''Metzler Lexikon Sprache'', 5th ed., J. B. Metzler Verlag: Stuttgart, 2016, p. 488 s.v. ''Ostpommersch'' [note: entry is about ''Ostpommersch, but also mentions East Low German and the other sub-dialects]</ref>
+* A Violation of [[WP:OR]] and [[WP:VERIFY]]: No source was provided that Low Prussian is Northern Low German (Lameli doesn't cover it).
+* Ignoring [[WP:RELIABILITY]], esp. "Prefer secondary sources" and "When relying on primary sources, extreme caution is advised": Lameli's study is a primary source (and BTW so is [http://www.wjheeringa.nl/thesis/ Heeringa's doctor thesis] used in other articles).
+And regarding the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Westphalian_language&diff=prev&oldid=1191261478 claim] "I have foundedly rejected this concept [West/East Low German] and you know this": Nowhere that I know of this was ''foundedly rejected''. Rejected it was by referring to Lameli and having the above flaws ([[WP:NPOV]], [[WP:WEIGHT]], [[WP:OR]]/[[WP:VERIFY]], [[WP:RELIABILITY]]).
+{{reflist-talk}}
+--01:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)