Talk:Owen Jones: Difference between revisions

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Owen Jones article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 31 days

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Arts and Entertainment / Politics and Government This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group. This article is supported by the politics and government work group. Politics Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Socialism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. University of Oxford Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of Oxford, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the University of Oxford on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of OxfordWikipedia:WikiProject University of OxfordTemplate:WikiProject University of OxfordUniversity of Oxford articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Politics of the United Kingdom Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. LGBT studies This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles Journalism Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Journalism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of journalism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JournalismWikipedia:WikiProject JournalismTemplate:WikiProject JournalismJournalism articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Sheffield Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sheffield, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sheffield on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SheffieldWikipedia:WikiProject SheffieldTemplate:WikiProject SheffieldSheffield articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Yorkshire Low‑importance Owen Jones is within the scope of WikiProject Yorkshire, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Yorkshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's talk page.YorkshireWikipedia:WikiProject YorkshireTemplate:WikiProject YorkshireYorkshire articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

"The book received a negative review from British trade unionist Len McCluskey. and was praised by Melissa Benn..."

There's a period after "Len McCluskey" and then the sentence continues. Dornwald (talk) 09:34, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dornwald:, fixed, thanks! Schazjmd (talk) 14:22, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If there are independent reliable sources that discuss this, that is certainly valid content. 331dot (talk) 11:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BLP violation removedPlease see the following articles by the Express, this online article and the original video of Owen Jones reacting to the Hamas massacre footage (from his own official YouTube channel).BLP violation removed

There was no need to remove my post from this talk page, when clarification could have been sought, given that it is evidence-backed and a valid point of discussion. There is no BLP violation at hand, except for the arbitrary application of rules here.

Now that sources have been provided, this discussion should continue unhindered. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 13:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't arbitrary, you did not provide sources with your original post(a fact I missed) and it was correctly removed. His own YouTube videos are useless here as the issue is what others say about his comments. The second source you provide is just someone writing about their thoughts and views, it isn't a piece of journalism. 331dot (talk) 13:20, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You conveniently leave out the first source, which is an established newspaper. Your ignoring of this does seem rather arbitrary. I will be re-posting the original discussion, with the Express newspaper article linked as a source. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 13:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you continue to post material that violates BLP policy, it will be removed and you may be reported for administrative action. AusLondonder (talk) 13:25, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you refer to the BLP policy of sources required, then rest assured, the sources will be provided. If you have any ongoing issue with this important discussion taking place on the talk page, even when sufficiently referenced, then we can escalate this accordingly. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 13:27, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) The Daily Express (WP:DAILYEXPRESS) is a generally unreliable source and absolutely unacceptable for contentious claims at a BLP. AusLondonder (talk) 13:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Daily Express is a generally unreliable source (WP:DAILYEXPRESS). — LittleDwangs (talk) 13:27, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just a reminder that BLP applies to talk pages. Jones has published statements pushing back on your characterisation so you should provide sources discussing this rather than make unsupported allegations. You may also wish to familiarise yourself with previous discussions on the topic here and here. Vladimir.copic (talk) 12:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the provided sources. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 13:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should not even be contributing about this topic, you don't have 500 edits. 331dot (talk) 13:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The community has determined that the Daily Express is not a suitable source. The reliability of Spiked is being discussed as we speak (see the RSN) but early indications are that it is also unsuitable. We cannot make editorial claims about Owen based on his own YouTube video. Btw this discussion relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict. There are restrictions on who can edit within that topic. Burrobert (talk) 13:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Several sources have reported on controversy around Owen Jones' reaction to Hamas' Oct 7th 2023 massacre of Israelis, where he reportedly posted a YouTube video that cast doubt on claims of Hamas' infanticides and sexual violence against Israeli women. Such sources include an article by Jewish News (a UK-based newspaper which focuses on topics within the Jewish community), The Express (a tabloid, however it adds consensus here) and pro-Israel NGOs such as CAMERA UK and HonestReporting. It is clear from these that controversy has occurred.

Additionally, controversy around Jones' wider discussion of the 2023- Israel-Hamas War can be found via sources such as Sky News on Oct 10th, where British Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge accused Jones of "ignoring what's happened over the last few days" (regarding Hamas' Oct 7th massacre).

Given this, and especially in light of the news of the United Nations confirming the validity of reports of Hamas sexual violence against Israeli women (see this BBC News article), it may be appropriate to include the controversy of Owen Jones' claims around the Oct 7th massacre and surrounding topics, in the article.

Looking to build consensus. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 13:47, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]