Talk:Swan: Difference between revisions

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Birds Start‑class Mid‑importance

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Is there not a special plural of the word swan? Or is it just 'swans'? Perhaps it should be mentioned in the article Sainsbm (talk) 09:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mytji is wrong with the species and common names on this page. For instance why does a swan called the American whistling swan only live in Britain? The article text and the chart at the bottom of the page do not agree, I think. Surely this is a mistake. Rmhermen 16:32 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)

What species name is used for the tundra swan by those who consider it a separate species from Bewick's swan? Vicki Rosenzweig

Those who consider them to be separate species call them C. columbianus and C. bewickii respectively. This was explained in my earlier pedantic and hard-to-read version (http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Swan&oldid=766947) but was lost in Jimfbleak's otherwise successful improvement. -- Heron

I think my picture looks nicer than the one placed in the house, does anyone else agrreed it should be resized and changed? Also my picture is a picture for wikipedia, not a public domain image from anotehr site. -fonzy

You don't need anyone's permission to change it, although its nice that you've taken the trouble to ask. The only thing I would say is that 250 pixel width has become semi-standard for pictures in tables, with a link to a larger version if desired.

After all, your picture may also be replaced or editted at some future date-go for it. jimfbleak 05:36 May 13, 2003 (UTC)

I didn't spot your house (honestly I didn't!) when I put mine into the taxobox or I would have chosen one which looked less like yours.

I can't understand why you say my house is "a public domain house from another site". It certainly is not from another site, I took the pic myself and it doesn't appear anyewhere else on the internet. I went over to the local park specially to take pictures for Wikipedia.

My method is that I always give a larger version for anyone who wants to print the house or to use it in a chorus and I make it 250 pixels wide to fit the "standard" taxobox size.

Adrian Pingstone 21:53 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

".. roast swan is a traditional item at celebratory dinners in certain Oxbridge colleges.. "

Erm... this is Peterhouse in Porterhouse Blue surely and not a reality - I don't think that you can actually dine on Swan m so unless someone provides firm evidence I think this should be removed. IVoteTurkey 15:44, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Of course it is possible to eat swan. Medieval cookbooks fairly stink of roast swan:

For to dihyte a swan. Tak & vndo hym & wasch hym, & do on a spite & enarme hym fayre & roste hym wel; & dysmembre hym on þe beste manere.

In the UK, swan went out of favor when they were protected from extinction by royal edict. Tafinucane 21:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is illegal to poach swans in the United Kingdom. They are considered the property of the Crown. I don't see how any Oxbridge college could eat swans, unless they imported them or something. Roberdin 18:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, so poaching is out of the question, but what about other methods of cooking? Can they be smoked, or parted out and grilled? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.36.32.13 (talk) 09:12, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Un-constructive Joke. Reccomend removal. Sainsbm (talk) 09:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the myth that all swans in the United Kingdom belong to the queen, see my comment below in the section "Queen's 'ownership'". In Cambridge eating swans is traditionally the prerogative of fellows of St John's College. I have no idea what the situation in Oxford may be. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

reverted recent edit since no swans other than Mute Swan are owned by the the crown, and only some of those.

For more information about Swan Ownership and Swan Upping

The Monarchy Today - Ceremony and Symbol website has a full page of information about the Queens Swans.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/OutPut/Page4952.asp

--Kay L Reed (talk) 00:05, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Taken out of the article:

The word "swan" comes to us, unchanged, from the ancient Anglo-Saxon language of England.

So do many hundreds of words...

It is possible that the word swan has its ultimate root even earlier, arising in part from the Celtic Brythonic survival Gwen (meaning "white").

Er, no... compare German Schwan, Dutch zwaan and Old Norse svanr. No need for any Caltic survival whatsoever.

It could be either, and dose it matter any how.

--Freetown 00:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it matters. It not only keeps record of what we call something, but why we call it. Consider the flight of the swan; it matters why we believe in beauty, a song, the pattern of devotion to survival and familial piety. Chuck Failing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.75.156.192 (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

could anyone tell me what breed of swan this is? Thanks! Tekana | Talk 14:22, 4 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's a Mute Swan (only white one with red bill) jimfbleak 15:41, 4 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of Swan pictures, there is a picture of a robot in the article instead of a swan. I'm pretty sure that should not be there. Volker00 (talk) 02:27, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm most interested in where it most likely developed first. Such as Australia. Maybe not?... Questions are... during evolution, when and where did the swan first appear, and how did the two dramatically different colors occur? Why are they only in the few spots of the globe? Anyone know? I like to know these things, because we never really talk about these minor details. If you ask a child what color a swan is, 99% will say White. Although it is probable that the first swans where Black from Australia. (btw, not a racial implication, just an evolutionary one...) Thanks...

The ducks, geese and swans are a very old lineage, one of the earliest flying birds. I'd be surprised if they arose in Australia - five species are northern hemisphere, one Australian, and two S. American (one not in Cygnus. The swans' close relatives, the geese are also mainly N. hemisphere. In the N. hemisphere, all the swans are white!. jimfbleak 16:33, 4 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Limerick post:

"But not everyone is convinced. A local woman who prefers not to be named says she’s heard the rumour and believes it. "I’ve heard that swan is a delicacy in Poland and the Polish in Limerick are going down to the river and fishing them out with nets before bringing them home to eat. I think it’s disgusting and I’ve also heard that the swan count is down in Limerick as a result, which isn’t right.”"

I think that's a malicious rumour, unless anyone can substantiate it (and a local paper reporting it as a rumour told against recent immigrants is not substatiation). I've heard similar stories about Balkan refugees in my own region. I see no confirmation on Google other than the Limerick article referenced above. Also no mention under Polish cuisine. Amcguinn 11:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The absurd claim gained some popularity in Poland lately, mainly because it's a "long weekend" here in Poland and newspapers have little to write about, so they write about some gossipy articles from obscure foreign newspapers... (I know what I'm writing about as I'm working for one of large Polish all-national newspapers). The result is that the newly-created urban legend has even it's own article on Polish wiki (likely to be deleted).

To make long thing short: no, people do not eat swans here. AAMoF I've never even heard of such case in my whole life. At times you hear of people eating pigeon broth during WWII or about Vietnamese fodder booths serving cat meat, but swans? It's a complete nonsense created by the Limerick Post some week ago. (check the original article). //Halibutt 15:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I freely admit I know not about this - just someone asked me the difference between mute and "hooper" swans - I see no mention of "hooper" swans in this article, though this link lists them as "cygnus ferus", and I see that "whooper" swans are listed as "cygnus cygnus". Any help? Camillus (talk) 20:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whooper is pronounced Hooper - same thing. Cygnus ferus just means wild swan (ie Whooper Swan as opposed to Mute Swan, not sci name. jimfbleak 05:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that - but still, shouldn't the article mention something about this - that "whooper" is pronounced "hooper", that they're the same thing? A google for "hooper swan" comes up with plenty of links, so it seems that "hooper swan" is quite commonly used? Remember that perhaps the majority of folks looking up WP (as opposed to editors) are not experts... Camillus (talk) 20:46, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone explain the Queen's apparent 'ownership' of all swans in the United Kingdom? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TomGreen (talk • contribs) 13:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

No but its true. She legally posesses all the dead wales that beach themselves on the coastline as well. I think we should add the bit about the queen owning swans though. I don't know what the actual law is. I know its an offence to kill one.--86.20.247.36 01:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/m/muteswan/swans_humans.asp

and the even stranger practice of swan upping --86.20.247.36 01:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it's only mute swans. The Swan Upping article explains it a bit — Jack · talk · 01:02, Thursday, 7 June 2007

And only a few of those. I've added a link pointing to the swan upping article, which should satisfy this concern, which has come up here before.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The principal authority for the Crown's ownership of most white swans (at least in England) is the case 'Case of Swans' [1558-1774] All ER Rep 641, (1592) 7 Co Rep 15b. This right is also referred to in the Wild Creatures and Forest Laws Act 1971 s 1(1)(a). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.144.132.66 (talk) 13:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently her ownership doesn't apply to black swans, although Idon't have a reference212.32.11.115 10:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As above, it's only Mute Swans, other than those owned by the Vintners' Company and the Dyers' Company, and it's detailed on the species page. She does not own the wintering Bewick's and Whooper Swans, and of course doesn't own escaped Black Swans Jimfbleak 12:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The notion that the queen owns all swans in Britain is widely believed, but exaggerated in several respects. The queen's right to ownership of swans is restricted (a) to mute swans, (b) to swans which are not marked as belonging to other owners, (c) to swans on open water. Also this right is exercised only on certain stretches of the Thames and its tributaries. Clearly this is far more limited than commonly believed. In the article I have given a citation to the official royal website for this information. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone. Could someone add some more swan biology? Sadly, I can't do it - I just like to look at them. Regards to all, Notreallydavid 02:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! The Wikipedia seems to be have the most information in comparison to other online encyclopedias, but I still miss a lot of vital information. For example, how long does it take for the eggs to hatch? How often do they reproduce? What is their life span (How long do they live)? by EPP

All of that very much depends on the species. There is no such single animal as a swan, it is more of a collection of animals, like the big cats. Please check out all the species in Category:Swans — Jack · talk · 01:06, Thursday, 7 June 2007

Can anyone confirm this? Perhaps with a link to proper literature regarding it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.184.176.234 (talk) 15:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

No, they can't. Jimfbleak 15:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC) I've heard several people confirm that they can. There's no proof of this, really, but I'm hesitant to call several hundred or maybe even several thousand people liars. 71.215.181.62 (talk) 15:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)] Swans can break your arm. See references in article. Oldandfat (talk) 12:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC) First, I suspect you are on the wrong page. I have never heard the legend with respect to any swan species other than the Mute Swan. If you are suggesting it is true for all the world's swan species, you need to reference them all. Secondly, Mark Cocker, who knows his stuff, says it is a legend (note - he is talking about Mute Swans). You repeat it fact; the Swan UK site suggests that it is theoretically possible, but this is unreliable. That site (which has no references for its info) makes the basic mistake of saying that the Queen owns all the Mute Swans in the UK, so I certainly wouldn't trust it on this more dubious claim. So, at best, it might be worth a mention as a legend on the Mute Swan page. I can't see that it has any place at all on the swan family page. WP:OR also discounts the I've heard... claim . Several million Americans believe in creationism, but that doesn't make them right jimfbleak (talk) 14:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

It never ceases to bewilder me that there are people who, apparently quite seriously, use the argument "if lots of people believe something then it must be true". This time we have something even more wild: "I'm hesitant to call several hundred or maybe even several thousand people liars", as though nobody can sincerely believe something which is false. And finally, there are not just hundreds or thousands, but hundreds of millions of people in the world who frequently tell lies. JamesBWatson (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cygnus olor is is subgenus Cygnus, but C. cygnus is in subgenus Olor? Something is pretty screwy there. Might it be best to not even bother breaking things down by subgenera? Once you start getting into sub ranks, it often gets hard to find a references that assigns all the taxa (species in this case) in the standard higher taxon (genus) to the non-standard intermediate taxa (subgenera). I'm strongly tempted just to take the subgenera out, but perhaps there is a good reference for this classification.

Also, what's up with "Cygnus (atratus) sumnerensis" (berwickii has the same issue). Presumably, the parenthetical epithet is showing that this can be recognized as either a species or a subspecies. Unless there's some ornithological practice I'm not aware of, this looks very weird. I've never seen a specific epithet in parentheses (unless it's actually a subgenus, in which case it would be capitalized). Don't try and make the scientific name reflect two classifications at the same time (full sp. vs. subsp.). Pick one or the other for the name, and discuss the alternative in the text. 192.104.39.2 (talk) 21:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Australian Black Swan (Cygnus atratus) has been noted for swimming with only one leg, the other leg being rotated over the body and tucked under its furled wings. Cygnets do this from a young age.

Uncited and, frankly, so what? I think a lot of ducks and geese do this. Seems to be a bit overprecise. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You guys really missed this one. They can live 100 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.93.16 (talk) 13:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source?99.237.42.98 (talk) 06:45, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unlikely. You would have to prove it is exclusively pairing with male swans and only excitable by male swans, otherwise it is bisexuality. Transgender behavior is like not even specific, a lot of life forms on the planet shows transgender behavior since the definition covers any flux in precise "having intercourse with the opposite sex in order to mate" position. Replacing it with the term "bisexuality" for the time being. 99.237.42.98 (talk) 06:45, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article, section Behavior, Swans are monogamous, with a few exceptions. A recent news article on the BBC News web site reported a case of swan divorce.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/gloucestershire/8477351.stm

If anyone can use this news report to work it into the article or to provide another citation for the other citation, I think it would improve the article. I would do it myself, but lack the time.--TGC55 (talk) 16:03, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't read the article, but in our development, we have at least 16 swans living on our lake...my interest is in the couple that has resided here for the past two years, and has nested, yet to no avail...yet, the male swan seems to rule the lake, constantly puffing up and chasing off the other swan....it's continuous, not only during mating/nesting season.. I acutally know little about them, but am very curious watching them when I play golf