Talk:Thomas Kean Jr.

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Politics and Government This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance). New Jersey Mid‑importance This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard. Please join in the discussion.New JerseyWikipedia:WikiProject New JerseyTemplate:WikiProject New JerseyNew Jersey articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Politics: American Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Low-importance). United States: Dartmouth / State Legislatures Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject New Hampshire - Dartmouth College (assessed as Low-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. State Legislatures (assessed as Mid-importance). U.S. Congress Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject U.S. Congress, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United States Congress on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.U.S. CongressWikipedia:WikiProject U.S. CongressTemplate:WikiProject U.S. CongressU.S. Congress articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is about one (or many) person(s).

The following sentence was removed from the main article: "He has been accused of being a Republican In Name Only (RINO) by conservatives.^[1]"

While the charge is out there, the us of a post to a blog to support the statement is questionable. A search of Google News was unsuccessful in identifying a more mainstream source. Please reinsert with an appropriate link. Alansohn 16:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the following passage:

"There has been much speculation that Kean will drop out of the race because of heavy conservative opposition in relatiation for his father's role on the 9/11 Commission, which was criticized by some conservatives..."

This seems to be highly likely to be POV (or maybe the author's wishful thinking) and also UNSOURCED.

If after the press conference on March 27, Kean is still in the race, then let's take the passage out.

69.39.172.90 09:21, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Abe. You're obviously an experienced Wikipedia user. You are no doubt familiar with the concept of original research, and how it is highly discouraged here. You have repeatedly added material of original research to the Thomas Kean Jr. page today. I removed this material because you did not provide a source. You reverted this change, and tried to use Wikipedia as a source. The pages you linked to also do not cite their source. This is clearly a case of original research. I must ask that you remove this material until you can provide a reputable source for these facts. I am not disagreeing with the facts, or claiming that they are in any way incorrect or falsified. I just want a reputable, verifiable source.

Furthermore, I fail to see the significance of the median income value of these districts. It appears out of context and does not relate to the paragraph.

Thank you for finally adding the proper sources.

They were already present in the wiki links. Review WP:Cite. And find another editor to stalk. Abe Froman 23:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that there is an article specifically for this campaign/race/election. The section on the election in the Thomas Kean Jr. article (and in the Menendez article, which I've already changed) should be a BRIEF summary of the race; interested readers can then go to the main article. Among other things, this means that there should only be ONE place to get into discussions about text related to campaign events, rather than THREE places (Kean, Menendez, and election article).

I'd welcome someone else moving most of the campaign text out of this article (I suspect that most of it is already in the campaign article); if no one else does it in a day or so, I will. John Broughton 12:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Normally I'd just revert changes by a new user that are so blatantly POV (in favor of Kean and against Menendez), but given the number of edits that Atarpatel did, I'm hoping that he/she might be willing to abide by wikipedia rules in doing edits in the future. So some comments:

• If you don't explain (using edit summaries) what you're doing, people are likely to be more suspicious that you aren't following wikipedia guidelines.
• If you delete five out of eight references, and two out of six external links, as you did, you've automatically lost any credibility that you might have for the edits you've done. (Exception: spamlinks, which, obviously, these were not.)
• The purpose of PREVIEW is to look at your work before you finalize it. If you'd done that, you might have noticed that you had SEVEN cases of starting a reference (with a <ref>), but failing to close it (with a </ref>). Also, you need a "References" section and a <references/>tag for references to appear.
• Don't assume that you can make a lot of changes to an article that biases it significantly and still not have anyone notice. Or that you know enough about wikipedia to prevail in any ensuing edit war. John Broughton 18:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let's remember that this is a new user and not be quite so brutal. I agree with you that these changes completely undo what is a pretty decent, weel-documented article. As a new user, Atarpatel is unlikely to view the discussion here or read the edit summaries you and i have entered. I'd strongly suggest toning down the rhetoric and adding this to the user's talk page, which would show up on top of a page and be more likely to be clicked on and read. Alansohn 20:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for having deleted some of your edits that were mixed in with changes by Atarpatel; I should have checked. As for Atarpatel, I withhold judgment about whether he was acting in good faith - I've never seen that kind of a butcher job by anyone other than someone uninterested in any kind of reasonable discussion - while admitting that I was irritated when I posted the above. John Broughton 18:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I quite enjoyed reading your accusations that I am biased. I will admit to being new to wikipedia, but I'm trying to get rid of the blatant bias already existing in the article, such as citing the swift-boat ad as pretty much the only major occurrence in the race. Also, saying that Kean screwed up in the debate when comparing Westfield and Union City is completely wrong and judgmental - I actually believe it was a great move on him part. Also, where's all the info about how Menendez tried to prevent free speech during a Kean press conference in Jersey City?

Too be honest, you have no standing to say that I am biased when you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word. I do intend to continue editing this and other articles to make them as objective as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.229.154 (talk • contribs) 03:12, 17 July 2006

Welcome to wikipedia. Some suggestions:

• Sign your comments on talk/discussion pages (four tildes). Otherwise, it's confusing for the reader to figure out who said what, and when.
• If you're a named user (for example, if you're Atarpatel), then login before you post. Otherwise, wikipedia software records the IP address that you used, not your user name. (You can tell you're logged in if text like "my talk" and "my preferences" are visible in the upper right of your screen.)
• Avoid sarcasm (such as "enjoyed reading your accusations"). As in real life, if you're trying to convince people that you want to be objective and reasonable (and thus that your comments should be taken seriously), it's best to avoid insults, sarcasm, etc.

As to the issue of making this article "objective", you seem to misunderstand wikipedia's policies. DELETING a lot of text, as you just did (again?) isn't the way to make an article objective. If there are (in your opinion) too many negatives, then ADD some positives. If the negatives are overstated, then either (a) trim them a bit, leaving enough so the reader understands what is being claimed, and can still go elsewhere to learn more, or (b) take the issue to the talk/discussion page, and explain why you feel the way you do.

Turning to specifics:

• Attacks on Menendez for "corruption" seem like they're going to be the main theme of the Kean campaign - after all, he's a junior NJ legislator, so he can't compete on experience, and the Menendez political positions are pretty mainstream for NJ. So a fair amount of text for discussions of attacks on Mendendez ARE very appropriate, particularly since there seems to be so much saying that the attacks are unfair/untrue.
• I've read the NYTimes article that mentions the "gaffe". It's notable that the article doesn't use that word, I think. I'd personally vote to have the item dropped from the article, unless someone provides a citation to a newspaper story or other source saying that the matter (comparing locations where the two live) is a significant issue in the race.

John Broughton 12:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The paragraph with the median income data is not only blatantly slanted, it distorts the facts. Anyone who watched the debate knows that Kean's comment had nothing to do with the relative wealth of Hudson County or Westfield. As the linked NYTimes article makes clear, when Menendez asked if he was casting aspersions on the people of Hudson County with that comment, Kean responded, "You know better than that, Bob." Kean was casting aspersions on Menendez's record, as is obvious from the quote already in the article: "Are you willing to invite people into Hudson County, Bob, to look at this record?" This "incident" is so trivial that I would vote to remove it entirely, but for now, I am just removing the irrelevant income data and the "gaffe" phrasing.

JPannucci 17:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)JPannucci[reply]

Let us try to keep the Tom Kean, Jr. article neutral.

Do not add passages containing terms like:

EMBRYO-DISECTING

GUN-GRABBING

JIM JEFFORDS-WANNABE

CLOSET-DEMOCRAT

POPE-HATING

LIBERAL

..and the article will be a lot more balanced.

71.168.129.132 06:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While the article states that Kean opposes the administration's Social Security plan, I believe it needs to be made more specific. Senator Menendez claims otherwise, and the truth - from the article cited here - seems to be a little of both. Kean appears to support a slightly less drastic version of the administration plan - putting 2% into private accounts instead of 4% - which may not be the biggest distinction in the world, but I believe it's worth expanding upon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.100 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 9 October 2006

The citations given in the article do not support (in fact, contradict) the blanket statement that he opposes privatization. I agree with you that some elaboration will be necessary to present his position accurately and neutrally. JamesMLane t c 19:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Dirty WikiTricks" Bwithh 20:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

This whole section reads like it was written by a member of his staff or something. What gives? 98.168.192.162 (talk) 02:44, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Thomas Kean Jr.. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170927121504/http://ga0.org/freedom_action/alert-description.tcl?alert_id=2000334 to http://ga0.org/freedom_action/alert-description.tcl?alert_id=2000334
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071126194306/http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/2006results/06generalelection/2006_official-senate_tallies.pdf to http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/2006results/06generalelection/2006_official-senate_tallies.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:03, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• McCain Kean NJ.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:07, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]