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=== December 23 ===
<!-- Please do not add new nominations here.
     Use the current day's NEW NOMINATIONS section
     (to properly order entries and avoid edit conflicts).
     Thank you for your cooperation.
  -->

==== Category:Extinct insect families ====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 19%23Category:Extinct insect families]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Boating accident deaths ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep''', noting that this discussion has led to [[:Category:Water transport deaths]] being added as a helpful new parent over the nominated category and the target. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 22:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Boating accident deaths]] to [[:Category:Deaths due to shipwreck]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' While there is a difference in meaning between boating (which our article says is for pleasure and sport) not for transportation and shipwreck (which means the boat is defunct in WP parlance - so wouldn't include person-overboard type scenarios), I'm not sure the distinction of which lead to one's death is meaningful. Moreover, many of the articles included in the boating category '''''are''''' transport related and are the result of the ship capsizing, sinking, or otherwise being shipwrecked. Therefore, merge the two. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*People can be killed by boats without any shipwreck.  The six articles I sampled none of them mentioned a ship of any sort.   [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 22:33, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* If merged, the target should be broad enough to include boating and transportation ships and to include with and without shipwreck. For example [[:Category:Ship accident deaths]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 23:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* This is a difficult one. They are both [[:Category:Transport accidental deaths]]. But not both [[:Category:Deaths by drowning]]. I'd say the by Drowning was far more important than whether they were on a boat or ship (or kayak or raft). But, they are both well-populated. How about [[:Category:Deaths by drowning on water transport]]?<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:48, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Leaning oppose'''. I would keep these separate, and provide clear delineation between what constitutes a "boating accident" and what constitutes a "shipwreck". I can easily think of a situation where, for example, a boat passes under a bridge or other raised structure, an inobservant person on the boat stands up at an inopportune moment and is struck in the head, and they die without either ''drowning'' or being in a ''shipwreck''. Of course, many deaths in boating accidents will either be drowning deaths, or will involve the "wreck" of the boat, but there needs to be room for the edge cases. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 07:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
* People killed in boating accidents may not have been in the boat.  See [[Kirsty MacColl]].[[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 22:18, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename to {{c|Water transport accident deaths}}''', and make the shipwrecks cat a subcategory of it. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small>[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color: #008822;">wha?</span>]]</small>'' 00:23, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
:* Or create [[:Category:Water transport accident deaths]] as a parent of both [[:Category:Boating accident deaths]] and [[:Category:Deaths due to shipwreck]]; and move articles from [[:Category:Boating accident deaths]] to the new parent category if they aren't really about boating. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:55, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' [[:Category:Boating accident deaths]] to '''[[:Category:Water transport deaths]]''', and [[:Category:Deaths due to shipwreck]] to  '''[[:Category:Water transport deaths by drowning]]''' as a subcategory. No need to specify "accident" or "accidental". No need for type of ship/raft/canoe. Later rename [[:Category:Deaths due to ship fires]] (currently poorly placed under shipwreck) to [[:Category:Water transport deaths by fire]].<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 12:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Leaning to oppose''' -- I appreciate that the distinction is a fuzzy one.  In sampling articles, I find that "boating accident" is the phrase commonly used.  Some are sporting incidents (e.g. sailing); others are leisure boating.  This is well populated and the related categories of shipwreck and death by drowning are cross-referenced.  A lot of the boat incidents appeared to be in rivers or lakes; also yachts in coastal waters.  The converse of shipwreck may refer to a commercial sailor or a passenger in a larger vessel (ship) and crossing the sea. I think we should leave it to the discretion of editors whether the incident involved a "boat" or a "ship".  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:08, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
:*But the reason we're here is "discreation of editors" isn't working well. Evidence of confusion between boating and shipwreck. Better to rename with clear category names that editors will instantly recognize, less likely to put things in the wrong category. They can die of drowning or fire without being in a "shipwreck".<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 16:54, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
::* I have moved 4 articles from [[:Category:Boating accident deaths]] to [[:Category:Deaths due to shipwreck]] as they were clearly misclassified. But Peterkingiron is right that the other articles in [[:Category:Boating accident deaths]] use the term "boating accident" quite consistently, so we should probably stick to that. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:56, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
::: I.e. count me in with '''leaning oppose'''. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:19, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' You don't need a shipwreck to be killed in a boating accident. I would not oppose the creation of '[[:Category:Water transport deaths]] as a parent category. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 12:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' and '''SNOW close''' Off the top of my head, [[Kirsty MacColl]] and [[Naya Rivera]] didn't die in shipwrecks, but accidents involving boats that remained afloat. [[Boating]] itself is a form of leisure activity and any number of accidents can result in death by injury or drowning. This nom is completely misguided, and the comments above show that nobody is confusing anything. [[User:Kingsif|Kingsif]] ([[User talk:Kingsif|talk]]) 19:27, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
* Meanwhile I created [[:Category:Water transport deaths]] as a parent category. Presumably the discussion can be closed with no further action required. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 16:54, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' there are lots of ways to die in a boating accident that is in no way a shipwrieck.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 13:10, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Association football in the United States lists ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:13, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Association football in the United States lists]] to [[:Category:Soccer in the United States lists]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Same as previous proposal. "Association football" is included in only one title, the page that is listed below for renaming. [[User:DB1729|DB1729]] ([[User talk:DB1729|talk]]) 22:23, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - in that case the many countries that only have "football" as the name of the sport should also be changed accordingly (e.g., England). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small>[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color: #008822;">wha?</span>]]</small>'' 00:26, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
:*If you mean those under [[:Category:Association football-related lists by country]], I would agree. A few are already in line with that now: [[:Category:Football in Germany lists]]; [[:Category:Swedish football-related lists]]; [[:Category:Soccer in Australia lists]]; [[:Category:Soccer in South Africa lists]]. --[[User:DB1729|DB1729]] ([[User talk:DB1729|talk]]) 09:58, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
::*Yup, those are the ones :) [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small>[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color: #008822;">wha?</span>]]</small>'' 11:17, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to reflect local usage, but '''do not change the rest'''.  In most countries, "football" means soccer, but in USA, Australia, and perhaps a few other places, it refers primarily to another sport.  Local usage should be used, without changing anything else, including parents.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:13, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
:<small>Note: This discussion has been included in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Football#Nominations for deletion and page moves|WikiProject Football]]'s list of association football-related page moves. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 16:19, 27 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
*'''Rename''' as [[association football]] is known as "soccer" in the United States and we reflect local usage. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 16:21, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Mayors in South Holland ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 05:07, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
: '''Propose merging'''
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Alphen aan den Rijn]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Alphen aan den Rijn]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Katwijk]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Katwijk]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Lansingerland]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Lansingerland]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Leiden]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Leiden]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Leidschendam-Voorburg]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Leidschendam-Voorburg]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Molenlanden]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Molenlanden]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Molenwaard]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Molenwaard]] and [[:Category:Mayors of former municipalities in the Netherlands]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Nieuw-Lekkerland]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Nieuw-Lekkerland]] and [[:Category:Mayors of former municipalities in the Netherlands]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Noordwijkerhout]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Noordwijkerhout]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Papendrecht]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Papendrecht]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Reeuwijk]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Reeuwijk]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Rijswijk]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Rijswijk]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Schipluiden]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Midden-Delfland]] and [[:Category:Mayors of former municipalities in the Netherlands]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Valkenburg, South Holland]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:Mayors of former municipalities in the Netherlands]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Vlaardingen]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Vlaardingen]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Voorburg]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Voorburg]] and [[:Category:Mayors of former municipalities in the Netherlands]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Wassenaar]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Wassenaar]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Westland (municipality), Netherlands]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Westland (municipality), Netherlands]]
:* [[:Category:Mayors of Zoetermeer]] to [[:Category:Mayors in South Holland]] and [[:Category:People from Zoetermeer]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: merge''' per [[WP:SMALLCAT]], just one, two or three articles in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:19, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' - Useful categorial information about mayors related to municipalities. [[User:Lois12jd|Lois12jd]] ([[User talk:Lois12jd|talk]]) 08:20, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
:* The categories aren't proposed to be deleted but to merged. The link of these mayors with the municipality will remain. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:45, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge for Now''' While there likely were more than 5 mayors for each place, most would not be individually notable. No objection to recreating if any get up to 5+ articles but, right now, these hinder navigation with a bunch of underpopulated categories. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 01:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Lists of association football stadiums in the United States ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:12, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Lists of association football stadiums in the United States]] to [[:Category:Lists of soccer stadiums in the United States]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Understood on the use of "association football" on most of the sport's pages. That said, every article title in this category contains the word "soccer". None contain the word "football". And of course, "football" generally refers to a completely different sport in the U.S. [[User:DB1729|DB1729]] ([[User talk:DB1729|talk]]) 22:15, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Speedy rename''' per [[List of soccer stadiums in the United States]], {{Cl|Soccer venues in the United States}} and more generally {{Cl|Soccer in the United States}}. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 08:14, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''REname''' this and any other US categories, but do not apply that where "football" means soccer.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:14, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
:<small>Note: This discussion has been included in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Football#Nominations for deletion and page moves|WikiProject Football]]'s list of association football-related page moves. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 16:19, 27 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
*'''Rename''' as [[association football]] is known as "soccer" in the United States and we reflect local usage. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 16:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Baptist congregations ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''manual merge, based on the discussion here and related categories (noted in this discussion) that were discussed is separate nominations. Following the lead of {{u|Fayenatic london}}, in the cases where the congregations were established in an earlier century than the buildings, I moved them up to, e.g., [[:Category:Baptist organizations established in the 18th century]]'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 01:27, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
----
:* '''Propose manually merging''' [[:Category:Baptist congregations established in the 18th century‎]] to [[:Category:18th-century Baptist churches‎]]
:* '''Propose manually merging''' [[:Category:Baptist congregations established in the 19th century‎]] to [[:Category:19th-century Baptist churches‎]]
:* '''Propose manually merging''' [[:Category:Baptist congregations established in the 20th century‎]] to [[:Category:20th-century Baptist churches‎]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: merge''', largely overlapping scope. A manual merge is needed because the articles in the Baptist congregations categories may already be in a US subcat of Baptist churches. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:12, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

*'''Support''' — matching [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 18#Lutheran congregations]]<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 22:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Mild support'''. This is an improvement as congregations are not notable per se, but ''churches'' is more ambiguous than e.g. ''church buildings'' as it also refers to church bodies. For Baptists though I believe that each local church is an independent organization so ''churches'' is applicable. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 08:28, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''', and if merger is done then it should be done manually, e.g. [[Gillfield Baptist Church (Petersburg, Virginia)]] was established as a congregation in C18 but meets in a C19 church building. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 08:30, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
:*They built "four successive church buildings at this site." So they were originally in the 1818 church building, as would be expected. If you propose that each and every building renovation or replacement is documented in the categories, I'm not entirely sure that the current "yyyy constructed building or structure" system cannot be used. But do we really want that?<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 10:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
:** It should be done manually anyway (that is the proposal, at least), so this is just an extra point of attention. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:49, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
:*** I would suggest that the article be categorised only by (i) the century in which the congregation was established, and (ii) the year the ''current'' building was opened, unless the article has a substantial separate section about a previous building. Renovations are rarely defining. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 22:24, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
::::*That sounds OK. But we already have two trees for that: "nth-century churches" in [[:Category:Churches by century]] for the founding, plus "yyyy constructed building or structure" in [[:Category:Buildings and structures by year of completion]] for the ''current'' building.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 05:00, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
::::**Please would you link to the two hierarchies you are thinking of? AFAIC, for churches, the tree for founding was "congregations established in", but that tree has almost entirely been felled now, leaving only the three categories in this nomination, [[:Category:Oriental Orthodox congregations by century of establishment]], and their generic parent hierarchy [[:Category:Christian organizations by century of establishment]]; the other hierarchy [[:Category:Churches by century]] is obviously applicable to construction of church buildings. I have suggested the possibility of also using the latter for the founding dates of the congregations, which would take advantage of the ambiguity of the word "churches". – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 21:30, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
::::::*{{ping|Fayenatic london}} I've updated my two examples with the roots of the trees above. There is already precedent per [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 May 1#Churches/Church buildings]] (you participated). [[:Category:Christian congregations by century of establishment]] is already a category redirect (by your edit), so any remaining "congregations by century of establishment" should probably be deleted/merged.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 18:23, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Baptist churches built in the 19th century‎]] (etc) with the option of also having [[:Category:Baptist churches established in the 18th century‎]], where the church currently used is not the original one.  Using "churches built" removes the ambiguity over the multiple meanings of church, as building, Christian community, and denomination. There is liable to need to be some significant manual recategorisation for churches not using their original building.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
::Better still [[:Category:Baptist churches founded in the 18th century‎]] for those subsequently moved or rebuilt.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:23, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
:*Agree "founded" is better than "established". But, we already have "yyyy constructed" and "yyyy demolished" for buildings subsequently moved or rebuilt, so we don't need yet another category.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 16:44, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' founded may be a better term than established, period. However that move would need to be based on moving this whole huge tree. There is no reason to suppose this is unique even to churches, I am thinking whther we say founded or established effects everything. 
*'''Reverse merge''' that way we put the articles in categories that clearly say this is about when they were founded/established, not just that they existed in those times.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 16:40, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Note''', I just closed [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_December_21#Presbyterian_congregations]] as merge/rename to "churches". In the cases of the articles where the congregations were established in an earlier century than the buildings, I moved them up to e.g. [[:Category:Presbyterian organizations established in the 18th century]]; but perhaps it would be acceptable for such an article to be in both "18th-century churches" and "19th-century churches". – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 14:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Latin American Spring ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:11, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Latin American Spring}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' The article [[Latin American Spring]] was deleted after it was found to be bogus claims and extreme case of [[Wikipedia:SYNTH]], there's no Latin American Spring and the articles in the category are of mostly unrelated events, borderline [[Wikipedia hoax|hoax]]. [[User:CDLCR|CDLCR]] ([[User talk:CDLCR|talk]]) 21:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 21:41, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' this is not a recognized way to categorize things.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 16:26, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
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==== Category:Subdivisions of Russia ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:25, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Subdivisions of Russia]] to [[:Category:Political divisions of Russia]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Technically incorrect. Match main article: [[Political divisions of Russia]].<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 21:15, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' the regions issue again here. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:*Thanks. Fixed.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:25, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::* Not fixed because Subdivisions is broad enough to contain Regions too, so that makes it a more useful parent category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
:::*You have it backwards. Read the [[Region|main article]], especilly sections 2.5 and 2.6. Regions subsumes other divisions. It is the parent, not the child.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 11:50, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::::* Interesting, so the article [[Region]] uses the word "region" the same way as the categories use "subdivision". Ultimately it is just a matter of definition, so ultimately I am indifferent, but I thought the word "region" is primarily used for informal regions (including historical and touristic). [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 14:35, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::*That's why we ask '''''subject matter experts'''''. Remember that in English (and its legal system), "subdivisions" are smaller than "divisions", that in turn are smaller than "baronies", "counties", etc. It's been a long time since I'd [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Tobias Conradi|RFC'd Tobias Conradi in 2005]], and asked for arbitration twice, so I'm a bit fuzzy on all the details. After s/he was banned, all these "country subdivisions" were supposed to go back to "administrative divisions" and "political divisions". Many were done. Lots of redirects still around, too. Besides, a guy with 150+ sockpuppets can do a lot of damage over time. One of the worst we've ever seen.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 02:32, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::* Sounds reasonable. So then the fix for regions (after implementing the proposed rename) is to replace parent [[:Category:Subdivisions of Russia]] by [[:Category:Geography of Russia]]; and for the nominated renamed category to replace parent  [[:Category:Geography of Russia]] by [[:Category:Regions of Russia]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:53, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::::*No, for several reasons.  But this subsection is getting 10 indents deep, so....
:#I've long been favorable to flatter hierarchies. Centuries with a hundred year subcategories, not decades with only 10.
:#Deep/tall hierarchies are annoying to navigate.
:#On a wider computer screen, it wastes lot of real estate, and you have to click through again and again.
:#On a small phone screen, you cannot see enough at a time, and you have to click through again. And again. And again.
:#So I'd put as much as possible under [[:Category:Geography of Russia]], with a navigation template (that does not yet exist) to slide sideways between top level things like Regions and others like Selsoviet/Somon/Sumon that are actually the same thing in different places.
:#It also means a tolerance for smaller categories at the bottom of the hierarchy. Just because there is only 1 entry, and it will not be likely to expand, doesn't mean it needs to be merged somewhere else.
:#Another thing that Conradi did is a massive Template (that s/he kept changing the name, so there are different redirects to it all over the place). I've been wrestling with it for a couple of days now. It purports to have all the geography "types" and "terms" for all languages in one template. Everytime you make a change, it propagates to hundreds of articles. Somebody changed it so it always defaults to collapsed and doesn't take up the bottom half of the screen on every article. But hard to maintain. A few days ago, it was full of redlinks. After I've fixed a dozen or so things, it is obviously missing many more after 10 years. So it needs to be pruned, and instead access our categories that already update dynamically.
:#So [[:Category:Regions of Russia]] would sit side by side with [[:Category:Political divisions of Russia]] and [[:Category:Administrative divisions of Russia]].
:Anyway, that's what I'd like....<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 16:53, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
* I am afraid you are sort of contradicting yourself. In your edit of 11:50, 24 December 2020, you seem to suggest that Regions should be the highest level in the hierarchy, per article [[Region]], esp 2.5 and 2.6. Then [[:Category:Subdivisions of Russia]] (whether or not renamed) and [[:Category:Administrative divisions of Russia]] should become subcats of [[:Category:Regions of Russia]], or they should be merged into it. If you prefer flatter hierarchies, merging would be preferable. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:14, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
:*NO, I said "subsumes". '''[[Human geography]] is messy.''' I'd prefer Regions would be side-by-side with Political divisions and Administrative divisions for ease of navigation, because most Regions have nothing to do with either Political divisions and/or Administrative divisions, and they all can cross each other's boundaries. If you want a strict hierarchy, that's it: Regions -> Political divisions -> Administrative divisions, largest to smallest size, upper to lower level.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 12:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
::* Messy indeed. But then I wonder what you want to leave in [[:Category:Political divisions of Russia]], ultimately. As you want to move Administrative divisions to the Geography level, and presumably you want to move Economic regions to Geography level as well, and presumably you want to split the Former category, there is not much left in Political divisions than Federal subjects, which already has its own category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''REname''' per nom to match main article.  However this should be a container for general articles and subcategories for different levels and types of division.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:26, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Subdivisions of the United States ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:27, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Subdivisions of the United States]] to [[:Category:Political divisions of the United States]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Technically incorrect. Match main article: [[Political divisions of the United States]].

*Another mistake by banned {{User|Tobias Conradi}}, long overdue for renaming.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 20:52, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*{{ping|William Allen Simpson}} How is [[:Category:Regions of the United States]] a political division? [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:29, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
**{{ping|Carlossuarez46}} Gosh, there's an error in Wikipedia?!?! But as with India, this isn't about fixing everything, this is just one issue. Besides, that's easy to change in the tree, doesn't require a process. Heck, I'll do it now.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 23:35, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
::* Not fixed because Subdivisions is broad enough to contain Regions too, so that makes it a more useful parent category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:02, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
:::*You have it backwards. Read the [[Region|main article]], especilly sections 2.5 and 2.6. Regions subsumes other divisions. It is the parent, not the child.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 11:51, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::::* Discussion continued in the section right above this one. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:02, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''REname''' per nom, but it should primarily be a container for types of division.  I do not see "regions", which might be a concept of physical geography, not political, in the category: someone else has perhaps fixed that.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:31, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:C-type stars ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:28, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:C-type stars]] to [[:Category:Carbon stars]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Nobody calls this type of star a C-type star, they are referred to as carbon stars, occasionally by more complex terms such as carbon-rich something or other.  See the main article for the category as an example.  "C-type" is misleading since the spectral type for these stars often doesn't begin with C, depending on the scheme used. [[User:Lithopsian|Lithopsian]] ([[User talk:Lithopsian|talk]]) 19:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support''': the proposed name would be clearer and reduce potential confusion. While assigning this category to a star article I initially assumed it would be 'Carbon stars', and had to track down the alternate category name through the [[Carbon star]] article. [[User:Praemonitus|Praemonitus]] ([[User talk:Praemonitus|talk]]) 18:28, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Subdivisions of India ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:29, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Subdivisions of India]] to [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Technically incorrect. Match main article: [[Administrative divisions of India]].

*Another mistake by banned {{User|Tobias Conradi}}, long overdue for renaming.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 18:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* Not too sure because it also contains sub[[:Category:Regions of India]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:13, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:*I'm only proposing this single category. The fact that others are misnamed or poorly organized is not this issue. The usual geopolitical hierarchy is:
:*#Nation
:*#Political division (see [[Political divisions of the United States]] and [[Administrative geography of the United Kingdom]])
:*#Administrative division (see [[Administrative division]], [[:Category:Administrative divisions of the United States by state]], and [https://www.loc.gov/resource/g5741f.ct001689/ United Kingdom, administrative divisions])
:*Many/most of these terms come from Britain, so I'd be very surprised that India does not follow them.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 20:47, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
::* One can also argue that the hierarchy should be:
:::: Country
::::: Parts of country (whether political divisions, administratieve divisions or informal regions)
::: I suppose the subdivisions tree is meant for the latter. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:08, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:::* This part of the discussion is continued in [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_December_23#Category:Subdivisions_of_Russia]] further up on this page. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:19, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Comment'''. In India and other South Asian countries, [[Division (country subdivision)]] is a specific type of second-level administrative entity, see {{Cl|Divisions of India}} and [[List of divisions in India]]. When I first found it, {{Cl|Divisions (country subdivision)}} was a mess. How could the proposed scheme avoid the confusion between both types of administrative divisions? [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 21:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:*That has nothing to do with this nomination, but glad you are helping improve it.
:*#Note that article is a '''stub with no references''', another started by Conradi.
:*#The lead actually says: "A '''division''' is a type of [[administrative division]]...."
:*#I'd recommend renaming it to [[Division (political geography)]] as it is labeled a geography stub, matching [[Political geography]], and turn it into a list with actual references.
:*#As to the related category, it doesn't really serve a purpose. It only has 4 entries, so SMALLCAT. The [[Division (political geography)]] list article should be sufficient with proper references.
::[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 21:49, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
::*I've handled the rename to [[Division (political geography)]]. Eventually, to be more useful it should have details about various kinds of "division" at many levels.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 02:58, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''REname''' per nom, but '''purge''' of items that ought to be in subcategories.  This should be a container with a few general articles, excludign those on individual divisions etc.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:34, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Starfleet doctors ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:10, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Starfleet doctors]] to [[:Category:Starfleet medical personnel]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Match parent [[:Category:Fictional military medical personnel]].
Prior to merge with [[#Category:Starfleet nurses]] (below)
<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 17:42, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' we do not need to subdivide in the way we are.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 16:27, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Starfleet nurses ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge with [[:Category:Starfleet doctors]] into a new [[:Category:Starfleet medical personnel]]'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:21, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Starfleet nurses]] to [[:Category:Fictional nurses]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Small cat. Doesn't seem like there's much room for growth. <span style="color:green;">[[User:JDDJS|<span style="color:green;">JDDJS</span>]] ([[User talk:JDDJS|<span style="color:purple;">talk to me</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/JDDJS|<span style="color:purple;">see what I've done</span>]])</span> 05:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
:'''Comment''': Alternatively merge with [[:Category:Starfleet doctors]] into [[:Category:Starfleet medical personnel]]. --[[User:Atvica|Atvica]] ([[User talk:Atvica|talk]]) 19:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with [[:Category:Starfleet doctors]] which will still only get us to 13 entries in the category (there is 1 overlap at present). Upmerge also to [[:Category:Fictional nurses]], which will then be at 139 entires, which is reasonable. Several of those 139 entries are redirects, and at least one seems to be about someone who was more a wet nurse than a medical nurse, but I think for a fictional entities category both can be preserved.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 21:46, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Procedural comment''', [[:Category:Starfleet doctors]] has not been nominated here. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:17, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge and upmerge''' per JPL. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|<span style="color: maroon;">One ping only</span>]]</sub> 04:22, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' together with Category:Starfleet doctors<br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 17:39, 23 December 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div>

*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Starfleet medical personnel]], together with [[#Category:Starfleet doctors]], satisfying both {{U|Marcocapelle}} and {{U|Johnpacklambert}}.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 17:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Duolingo users ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:04, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Duolingo users}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' User category for people learning languages via [[Duolingo]]. I fail to see how this is relevant to building an encyclopedia, at best it's trying to [[WP:NOTSOCIALNETWORK]]. [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 17:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' how one learns something is not useful in building an encyclopedia. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Administrative divisions of India by state or state or union territory ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''do not rename (in light of discussion above), but rename [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India by state or state or union territory]] to [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India by state or union territory]]'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:31, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India by state or state or union territory]] to [[:Category:Subdivisions of India by state or union territory]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Administrative divisions in Andhra Pradesh]] to [[:Category:Subdivisions of Andhra Pradesh]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Administrative divisions in Telangana]] to [[:Category:Subdivisions of Telangana]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India  by city]] to [[:Category:Subdivisions of cities in India]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' C2C per {{Cl|Subdivisions of India}}. Confusingly, many Indian states have a second-level subdivision called [[Division (country subdivision)|division]]. This is however not the case of the two states in this category, which use the word ''[[mandal]]''. This renaming removes the ambiguity and sticks to common practice in naming categories for country subdivisions. Also, ''by state'' is repeated in the current title, an obvious mistake. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 17:32, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

*'''Strong Oppose''' — [[:Category:Subdivisions of India]] is another banned {{User|Tobias Conradi}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Subdivisions_of_India&oldid=14657042 mis-construction]. Instead, we should rename the parent to [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India]] to match its main article: [[Administrative divisions of India]]. I'll do that in a moment.
*But '''Speedy Rename''' to remove duplicate "or state" — [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India by state or state or union territory]] to [[:Category:Administrative divisions of India by state or union territory]] .<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 18:25, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
** If the [[#Category:Subdivisions of India|above nomination about India]] goes through, I agree with your target. If not, these subcategories should follow their parent's pattern. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 21:45, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* Removing the duplicate "or state" is a simple matter of [[WP:C2A]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:21, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' -- This is complicated because there is a level called "division".  This is trying to be a container for all types of region below state or union territory.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:40, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Converge ICT ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:03, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Converge ICT}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Eponymous category for a Filipino telecoms company, with only the company article in it. [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 17:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 17:32, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Speedy''' per [[WP:C2F]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:List of celebrities who served in the Indian military ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:02, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|List of celebrities who served in the Indian military}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' "Celebrity" never works as a categorisation [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 17:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 17:32, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. And it's not a list either...! '''[[User:Lugnuts|<span style="color:#002bb8;">Lugnuts</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Lugnuts|Fire Walk with Me]]</sup> 17:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' -- The question of who is (or is not) a Celebrity depnds on the POV of the editor.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:42, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' I would oppose this if we used clearly designations like actors, musicians, etc. I do not think this is in either case a justified overlap category, but here it clearly is not.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 16:28, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' These "celebrities" can be categorized in standard articles for military personnel. That they were celebrities is not defining. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 13:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Administrative divisions ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge. A nomination of [[:Category:Types of country subdivisions]] for renaming could be helpful in focusing in on the naming issue highlighted by this discussion'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 05:14, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Administrative divisions]] to [[:Category:Types of country subdivisions]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Useless near-empty duplicate of the target. The current category description seems to precisely describe the scope of the other, better-named category: "{{tq|types of administrative divisions, not specific (named) divisions (e.g., "county" is included, but not "Clark county"). For specific (named) administrative divisions, see the subcategories listed below}}". Note that in [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 November 6#Country subdivisions by administrative level|this discussion]], the term of ''country subdivisions'' was preferred for categories. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 16:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 17:13, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Reverse merge and prune''' <s>Strongly Oppose</s> — The proper political science and geomapping term is "[[Administrative Division]]". Banned {{User|Tobias Conradi}} spammed "[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Country_subdivisions&oldid=82626863 country subdivisions]" all over the place, but that isn't technically correct. It often arrives as a mistranslation from French or German, especially in [[ISO 3166-2]]. You can often recognize it by "levels of subdivisions". These compounding words are not proper English grammar.
*#[[:Category:Administrative divisions]] was created in 2008: "This category is for types of administrative divisions".
*#[[:Category:Types of country subdivisions]] was created in 2010, and apparently has accreted a lot of unrelated cruft.
*#Instead, we really need to rename [[:Category:Types of country subdivisions]] to match the main article: [[List of administrative divisions by country]]. All Administrative divisions are within a country.
*#I've tagged [[:Category:Types of country subdivisions]].
*#"[[Subdivision (land)|Subdivision]] is the act of dividing land into pieces that are easier to sell or otherwise develop, usually via a [[plat]]." Much smaller than [[Administrative divisions]].
*:[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 18:17, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*:: ''Status quo'' would result in keeping this rump category with 3 articles ([[Circuit (administrative division)]], [[County seat]], [[Municipality]]) and 3 child categories ({{C|Independent cities}}, {{C|Municipalities}}, {{C|Precincts}}) which belong in [[:Category:Types of country subdivisions]] anyway. I suggest merging one way or another, without prejudice for a later renaming of all ''(country) subdivisions'' categories. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 21:50, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*::: OK, I've tagged the target, and changed to '''Reverse merge and prune'''. That should make us both happier.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*:::: I think that the category that would need to be ''reverse merged'' under this logic is [[:Category:Country subdivisions]] (and its many children). The ''Types of...'' category is fine and should follow the name of its parent, keeping a structure with one category for the types and another category for the actual administrative entities:
*::::* Either {{Cl|Administrative divisions}}, {{Cl|Types of administrative divisions}} and {{Cl|Administrative divisions by country}}
*::::* Or {{Cl|Country subdivisions}}, {{Cl|Types of country subdivisions}} and {{Cl|Country subdivisions by country}}
*:::: This then leaves the question of how to treat lower-level administrative division, such as {{Cl|Country subdivisions by administrative level}} [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 09:44, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
:::::*OK, I've also tagged {{Cl|Country subdivisions}} as noted. Let's deal with the top level stuff, then handle the other cruft. We're not deleting, so nothing will be lost.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 02:11, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Merge both together''' as the scope of both categories overlap. If "subdivision" is not a proper English term in this context, then at least I was not aware of that, but I will leave it to others to discuss that. Note however that the alternative "administrative divisions" will leave us with the problem where to leave sub[[:Category:Regions]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:*That probably doesn't belong here. Look at the main article. It was recently added here by Rathfelder, but "Continental regions", "Historical regions", "Tourism region", etc. are not relevant here. I'll remove it.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::* ''Please do not remove it yet.'' That would only be appropriate ''if'' (and after) there is consensus to narrow this category to Administrative divisions. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::*: Administrative entities called "regions" should certainly be treated differently than ''regions'' in the general sense. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 09:44, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' Types of country subdivisions do not translate well because they are context dependent. I dont see that political science or geomapping are terribly relevant. If anything Administrative divisions should be one of the Types of country subdivisions. [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 22:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Combine''' I'll defer to other editors for the best name, but these are clearly overlapping. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 19:40, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Tagged [[:Category:Country subdivisions]] for the reverse merge.''' — Pursuant to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Country subdivision]]. The main article is at [[Administrative division]]. The term "Country subdivision" was a neologism of [[User:Tobias Conradi]], one of whose many sockpuppets was [[User:Country subdivision]]. These were all supposed to be fixed (and many articles were simply deleted), but sadly others linger a decade later. It is so easy to spam categories, and so much harder to fix them. Especially as the spammer was operating 150+ sockpuppets at XfD, one of the worst we've ever seen. Before coming here, he'd been banned at the German wikipedia.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 02:03, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Lists of country subdivisions''' has been [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of country subdivisions|deleted at AfD]].<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 09:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:United States topic navigational boxes ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''no consensus'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 03:17, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:United States topic navigational boxes]] to [[:Category:United States every state navigational boxes]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Current name of the category is confusing, templates are often miscategorized into this category ([[Special:Diff/989869848|example]]). Name of the category should reflect the category description: {{tq|Navigational boxes added to this category should include a link for each [[U.S. state]] and may also includes links for [[Insular areas|U.S. Territories]], [[U.S. Minor Outlying Islands]] and the [[Washington, D.C.|District of Columbia]].}} I am ''very'' open to alternative suggestions—it is the best that I could come up with. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 14:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Alternative 1''': [[:Category:United States every state topic navigational boxes]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 14:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Alternative 2''': [[:Category:United States all states navigational boxes]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 14:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Alternative 3''': [[:Category:United States all states topic navigational boxes]]. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 14:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

* None of the rename proposals  sufficiently clarifies the intent of the category, imho. '''Question''', is this way of organizing navboxes really needed at all? [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
*:{{u|Marcocapelle}}, that's a good question. {{u|Zyxw}}, do you happen to remember if there is a particular purpose to [[:Category:United States topic navigational boxes]]? —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 22:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
* '''Comment''': could we use ''by state or territory'', as in [[:Category:Categories by state or territory of the United States]]? E.g. [[:Category:United States topic navigational boxes by state or territory]]. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 17:00, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
*:{{u|Place Clichy}}, such naming is used by categories [[:Category:United States navigational boxes by state|United States navigational boxes by state]] and [[:Category:United States insular areas navigational boxes|United States insular areas navigational boxes]], which are for a different kind of categorization. In such categories a single navbox corresponds to a single state/territory.
*:
*:For [[:Category:United States topic navigational boxes]], a single navbox is supposed to contain links to ''all'' states and territories at once. —⁠[[User:Andrybak|andrybak]] ([[User talk:Andrybak|talk]]) 22:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
*:: {{Re|Andrybak}} I see, the focus here is on ''topic by state or territory'' rather than ''templates by state or territory''. The name should therefore probably be something like  [[:Category:United States topic by state or territory navigational boxes]]. It could be [[:Category:United States topic by state navigational boxes]] if you prefer to leave the territories aside, something I would discourage. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 11:08, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' no activity in a month, need consensus.<br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 16:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Proposed monuments ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:59, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Proposed monuments]] to [[:Category:Proposed monuments and memorials]] 
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' To reflect the (wider) parent category [[:Category:Monuments and memorials]] [[User:Hugo999|Hugo999]] ([[User talk:Hugo999|talk]]) 08:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Clearly follows [[WP:C2C]] and more accurate. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 08:49, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Wider scope, and it matches the parent category. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 13:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:War crimes committed by the Home Army ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''no consensus. However, the category was empty when I closed it, so I have deleted it. Due to the no consensus result, the category may be re-created if populated. Given the nature of the category, care should be taken in populating it – these things should be well-sourced'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 05:23, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
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:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|War crimes committed by the Home Army}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Controversial category and likely ORish. Added to three articles, none of which contains the term "war crime" in the body, so this just a POV that those incidents are "war crimes". I did a quick Google Book search for Sahryń "war crime" / Pawłokoma "war crime" / Dubingiai "war crime" and got zero meaningful hits. Likewise, I cannot find any reliable source using the term "Home Army war crimes " or "War crimes committed by the Home Army". No prejudice to this being restored once there is some reliable body of scholarly research which discusses this logical concept. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 07:01, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''<s>Keep or</s> rename''', <s>at most</s> "war crimes" may be changed to "massacres" but as they have clearly been committed by the Home Army there is no reason for deletion. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:35, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:* Struck keep after Carlos' comment below. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:12, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' category is based on [[:pl:Kategoria:Zbrodnie oddziałów Armii Krajowej]]. There are several other incidents that could be added but lack enwiki articles as of right now. Cf [[:Category:War crimes committed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army]]. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 10:26, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
::This seems rather like an argument for renaming “War crimes committed by Ukrainian Insurgent Army” - although it depends on how the sources refer to these massacres - rather than keeping this as is. The pl category is not referring to “war crimes” so I’m not clear on how this one is suppose to be based on that one.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 09:52, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::Ok, here is the difference. Even a cursory search turns up sources for “UPA war crimes” [https://defendinghistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Grzegorz-Rossliinski-Liebe-on-Celebrating-Fascism-and-War-Criminality-in-Edmonton-Canada.pdf], [https://www.jstor.org/stable/26381369?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents], [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Convolutions_of_Historical_Politics/SXHIAAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22UPA+war+crimes%22&pg=PA224&printsec=frontcover], [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Useful_Enemies/Z-0hsC2iFq8C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22UPA+war+crimes%22&pg=PT282&printsec=frontcover] etc. On the other hand, a search for “Home Army war crimes” (or similar) turns up... ONLY this Wikipedia category. That’s pretty good indication that this, unlike the case with UPA, is just your own [[WP:OR|original research]].<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 09:59, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to avoid the "war crime" [[WP:OR]] label, since apparently none of these were prosecuted as such much less lead to convictions. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 17:16, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. "War crimes" here seems to be used here in a consistent way to other WWII crimes, not all of them being nominally cited in e.g. the Nuremberg trials. I do not really see any reason to water down the responsibility of the Home Army, which would also be sticking to a pretty stinky POV. Renaming to ''massacres'' would be a second best option, but certainly do not delete. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 07:32, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' <s>or '''Rename''' to "''Massacres committed by the Home Army''"  since some</s> [[Home Army]] units committed revenge attacks on Ukrainians (more here [[Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia]] - <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:GizzyCatBella|<span style="color:#40">'''GizzyCatBella'''</span>]][[User talk:GizzyCatBella|<span style="color:transparent;text-shadow:0 0 0 red;font-size:80%">🍁</span>]]</span></small> 17:17, 26 December 2020 (UTC) <small>added later </small>- After thinking about it, I believe such a category would be [[WP:UNDUE]] since those retaliation strikes and massacres were very few (3?); I am leaning now to delete that cat. all together. -  <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:GizzyCatBella|<span style="color:#40">'''GizzyCatBella'''</span>]][[User talk:GizzyCatBella|<span style="color:transparent;text-shadow:0 0 0 red;font-size:80%">🍁</span>]]</span></small> 19:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Massacres committed by the Home Army]].  The category and its parent needs a headnote saying that the Home Army was the main armed resistance in World War II Poland, loyal to the government in exile in London.  At least one was a revenge attack.  As far as I know, no one was convicted of a war crime for any of these massacres.  It is not for WP to adjudge guilt: that fails NPOV.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
**{{rto|Peterkingiron}} Indeed, Renaming in such context makes sense. Also, Buidhe pointed out that this is what the Polish corresponding category actually sais. While in Polish, 'zbrodnia' literary means 'crime', Polish Wikipedia uses this term where we use massacre. For example, one of the articles included here, [[Dubingiai massacre]], is [[:pl:Zbrodnia w Dubinkach]], and same for the others. They might be war crimes, but it's OR to call them that, but they are undisputable massacres and this is the right category tree for such tragedies. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 01:59, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' -- Home Army was an authorized military formation of the Polish Underground State, so the category should be consisted with other armed forces of WWII. '''No renaming''' is necessary, since massacres and reprisals are subcategories of the larger war crimes category. As far as the "no one was convicted of a war crime" argument goes, criminal convictions are not necessary to meet the definition of a [[war crime]]. Many events in WWII history w/o criminal convictions are classified as war crime. --[[User:K.e.coffman|K.e.coffman]] ([[User talk:K.e.coffman|talk]]) 18:50, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' - Not only were none of these persecuted or charged as war crimes, none of them are actually described as war crimes in reliable sources. Hence, this is pure [[WP:OR]] with a side of POV.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 09:50, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - None of the articles in the cat seem to make reference to them being war crimes. It is not for us to decide if they are or not, that should be left to RS inside each article. So since none of the articles in the cat seem to have RS supporting their inclusion it would be an empty cat. I could also see a rename to avoid the OR issue. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 03:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
::Is there even a rule that categories that temporarily become empty need to be deleted? Secondly, I checked the relevant category on the Polish Wikipedia. It includes articles about events that are clearly defined as war crimes with in-line references provided. See: [https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbrodnia_w_Sahryniu]. I mean even if there are shortcomings with the current articles, the category surely has potential and shouldn't be deleted. [[User:Knižnik|Knižnik]] ([[User talk:Knižnik|talk]]) 02:55, 3 January 2021 (UTC)<--- <small>— [[User:Knižnik|Knižnik]] ([[User talk:Knižnik|talk]]&#x20;• [[Special:Contributions/Knižnik|contribs]]) has made [[wikipedia:Single-purpose_account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic - see <u>500/30 restriction</u> Antisemitism in Poland: Motion (May 2020) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Antisemitism_in_Poland#Antisemitism_in_Poland:_Motion_(May_2020)] </small>
:::Yes, categories that are empty for 7 days are eligible for speedy deletion under [[WP:C1]]. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 13:11, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
::::OK, but the issue remains that at least some of these events '''have been''' described as war crimes in reliable sources. See [https://wydawnictwo.isppan.waw.pl/produkt/glinciszki-i-dubinki-zbrodnie-wojenne-na-wilenszczyznie-w-polowie-1944-roku-i-ich-konsekwencje-we-wspolczesnych-relacjach-polsko-litewskich/] - specifically mentions [[Dubingiai massacre|Dubinki]] as such. (The book title translates "Glinciszki and Dubinki. War Crimes in the Vilnius Area in Mid-1944 and Their Repurcussions In Today's Polish-Lithuanian Relations").[[User:Knižnik|Knižnik]] ([[User talk:Knižnik|talk]]) 13:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::I do not know the source, but that should then be added to the article. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 16:35, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
::::::I've added the source to the relevant article and used it as a reference.[[User:Knižnik|Knižnik]] ([[User talk:Knižnik|talk]]) 21:52, 3 January 2021 (UTC)<--- <small>— [[User:Knižnik|Knižnik]] ([[User talk:Knižnik|talk]]&#x20;• [[Special:Contributions/Knižnik|contribs]]) has made [[wikipedia:Single-purpose_account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic - see <u>500/30 restriction</u> Antisemitism in Poland: Motion (May 2020)</small>
*'''Keep''', as it is not original research to say that the massacre of civilians, infants included, is a war crime. This could be renamed to ''Civilian massacres committed by the Home Army'', which would then be a sub-category of other crimes (rape, looting, and so on), but this is much trouble for a now small category.--[[User:Astral Leap|Astral Leap]] ([[User talk:Astral Leap|talk]]) 15:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
**If the source does not call it a war crime it is indeed original research to call it that. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 16:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
**Just a point of clarification which is relevant here. Above Buidhe says that the category is based on the Pl-wiki category [[:pl:Kategoria:Zbrodnie oddziałów Armii Krajowej]]. But that is not the same thing. "Zbrodnia" (-e, plural) means "crime". So the pl-wiki category is "Crimes by units of the Home Army". Not "WAR CRIMES by the Home Army". Otherwise it would be "zbrodnie wojenne". This looks purposeful since none of these are generally referred to as "war crimes" even though they were obviously crimes. Likewise the distinction between "Home Army" and "units of Home Army" looks to have a purpose. The three massacres in this cat currently were not ordered by the Home Army but rather were either rogue units "AK-associated" units. For example, [[Pawłokoma massacre]] took place March 3 1945. But the Home Army had been disbanded in January of 1945. So this wasn't "Home Army", although some of the participants had formerly been in the Home Army.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 21:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
***{{rto|Volunteer Marek}} That said, pl wiki category systems two levels up (a parent category for :pl:Kategoria:Zbrodnie oddziałów Armii Krajowej) is [[:pl:Kategoria:Zbrodnie wojenne]]...  --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 09:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
****Yeah but that’s simply due to the fact that pl wiki cat system is a total mess. Not sure why we’d want to emulate that (obviously “war crimes” are a subcategory of “crimes”, not vice versa)<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 23:52, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. If this is kept, I think we need some kind of container category. I also found [[:Category:War crimes committed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army]] and [[:Category:War crimes of the Independent State of Croatia]]. I think the main issue is to make sure there are reliable sources calling events included in such controversial categories 'war crimes'. If such sources can be found, then such categories should exist. Going back to the ongoing discussion, did anyone find any RS calling the three massacres currently present in this category ([[Dubingiai massacre]], [[Pawłokoma massacre]] and [[Sahryń massacre]] 'war crimes'? Ping [[User:Buidhe]] (creator). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 09:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
**{{u|Piotrus}}, any intentional murder of civilians is a war crime, full stop.[https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml] Basically any event that could be described as a "massacre" and occurs in wartime is a war crime. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 13:10, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Buidhe, you can't construct this definition yourself. That's original research (it's incorrect too if for no other reason than it has to occur during a war). On Wikipedia we rely on reliable sources.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 15:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
:::And you most definitely need sources if you start attributing to people or organizations ("War crime committed by XYZ"). You can't just [[WP:OR]] it.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 15:08, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
::::{{rto|Buidhe|Volunteer Marek}} I concur per [[WP:REDFLAG]] and like. Exceptional/controversial claims require good sources. We can't be the ones to be the first to call something a 'war crime'. It is the very definition of OR. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 08:56, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:'''Delete or rename''' there are no reliable sources confirming this terminology as far as I can see. The category on Polish wikipedia doesn't translate as war crimes.--[[User:MyMoloboaccount|MyMoloboaccount]] ([[User talk:MyMoloboaccount|talk]]) 16:19, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' The category tree of "X nationality war crimes" is used for all similar events, and the criticism of it applies to the entire category tree. Therefore, any renames should apply to the entire category tree because treating war crimes by the Home Army differently from war crimes by literally any other group is clearly contrary to WP:NPOV. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 16:17, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
::I don’t think this is true. Other “similar” categories have actual sources to back it up. You got no sources here what so ever.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Volunteer Marek|<span style="color:orange;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Volunteer Marek '''</span>]]</span></small> 23:50, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:::I looked for English terms "War crimes committed by the Home Army", "Home Army war crime(s)" and "Armia Krajowa war crime(s)", and Polish "Zbrodnie wojenne Armii Krajowej", on Google Books and Google Scholar and I came away with nothing. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 06:08, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
::Actually the articles in [[:Category:War crimes committed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army]] don't mention the phrase "war crime". I'd say if this category is deleted, that one should be as well. In [[:Category:Soviet World War II]] crimes it doesn't seem like most of the articles such as [[Deportations of the Ingrian Finns]], [[Massacre of Broniki]], or [[Kharkiv tragedy]] use the phrase "war crime". Even [[:Category:Nazi war crimes]] (these were actually prosecuted to a certain extent, so legal terminology is more likely to be applied) has members that don't describe the event as a "war crime", such as [[Sonderaktion 1005]]. Per my investigation, the standard of sourcing that you expect just does not exist for other categories in the "war crimes" tree, so either no action should be taken or the entire category tree needs to be redone. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 06:33, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
:::I concur this is a wide-spread problem that needs more community attention. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 06:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' please see my comment above. Some of these events '''have been''' described as [[war crime]]s in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. See [https://wydawnictwo.isppan.waw.pl/produkt/glinciszki-i-dubinki-zbrodnie-wojenne-na-wilenszczyznie-w-polowie-1944-roku-i-ich-konsekwencje-we-wspolczesnych-relacjach-polsko-litewskich/] - specifically mentions [[Dubingiai massacre|Dubinki]] as such. (The book title translates "Glinciszki and Dubinki. '''War Crimes''' in the Vilnius Area in Mid-1944 and Their Repurcussions In Today's Polish-Lithuanian Relations"). <small>It was published by the IPN when the institution still had non-nationalist credentials, so why should we omit such a good source? I am mostly active on Russian Wiki so I was quite unaware of set limits for newbies to edit some articles (tho how exactly [[Dubingiai massacre]] relates to Poland&Holocaust remains unclear), my relevant edits got reverted. A more experienced user might reinstate my changes to said article.</small>[[User:Knižnik|Knižnik]] ([[User talk:Knižnik|talk]]) 15:52, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
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==== Category:Jewish Japanologists ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:57, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Jewish Japanologists}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:OCEGRS]]. I have a very hard time believing that being Jewish and a Japanologist is a [[WP:DEFINING]] feature of any of the scholars tagged here. [[User:AleatoryPonderings|AleatoryPonderings]] ([[User talk:AleatoryPonderings|'''???''']]) ([[Special:Contributions/AleatoryPonderings|'''!!!''']]) 03:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' — this one made me laugh. Actually wanted to see why anybody would think there was a Jewish Japanologist. Many/most of the articles don't even have a mention that they are Jewish. It's merely based upon the names seemingly sounding Jewish! How this escaped notice all these years flummoxes me.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 06:43, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' The ignoring of EGRS rules has become extreme and needs to be overturned and stopped.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 13:41, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. Is there a chair of Jewish Japanology somewhere? I guess that {{Cl|Jewish orientalists}} is not very far behind. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 17:06, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' another irrelevant religion/ethnicity category. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 17:16, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
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==== Category:Detention ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''speedy rename'''. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 11:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Detention]] to [[:Category:Detention (video game)]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[Detention (video game)]] <sub><small>[[User:Zxcvbnm|ZXCVBNM]] ([[User Talk:Zxcvbnm|TALK]])</small></sub> 03:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Speedy''' Per [[WP:C2D]]. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 08:51, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Speedy''' Per User:RevelationDirect (per C2D) -[[User:Thibbs|Thibbs]] ([[User talk:Thibbs|talk]]) 01:59, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
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==== Category:People with acquired Belgian citizenship ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:56, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:People with acquired Belgian citizenship]] to [[:Category:Naturalised citizens of Belgium]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' They appear to be the same thing in Belgium [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 19:42, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
* Based on the way the categories are populated I suppose (but do not actually know) that nominator is right. However, then '''upmerge''' to [[:Category:Belgian people]], [[:Category:People with acquired citizenship]] and [[:Category:Belgian nationality law]] for a mere technical reason - when downmerged the parenting is not automatically moved down. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:37, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
*Nationality law is obviously different in each country. We have a large number of categories of "People with acquired Fooish citizenship" which are empty except for the [[:Category:Naturalised citizens of Foo]], which appears to suggest acquiring citizenship other than naturalisation is not possible everywhere. [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 23:56, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="color:gray;">'''Zeke'''</span>, the '''Mad <span style="color:blue;">Horrorist</span>''' <small><sup>[[User talk:Zeke, the Mad Horrorist|(Speak quickly)]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contribs/Zeke, the Mad Horrorist|(Follow my trail)]]</sub></small> 17:15, 29 November 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line -->

*<s>Reverse merge</s> [[:Category:Naturalised citizens of Belgium]] '''to parent''' [[:Category:People with acquired Belgian citizenship]]. As noted, almost all the "acquired" categories are empty other than a single subcategory. But laws differ, so no need to distinguish "naturalised" as opposed to dual or honorary citizenship, thus "acquired" is a better naming scheme.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 09:39, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
*I'm quite happy with a reverse merge in principle, but I think in some places it may not work because acquired and naturalised are different things. [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 21:07, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
*I think these categories need attention from someone who understands citizenship laws. [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 20:46, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
:* {{ping|Rathfelder}} you might try asking for further comments at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Law]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:25, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
::Done that, without much success.  I think the problem is that citizenship is complex and by definition varies from country to country - and often over time too, and the necessary expertise is not available to us.  So I'm inclined to suggest that we should use "People with acquired Fooish citizenship" as the default for all countries where the "Naturalised citizens of Foo" category doesnt contain any actual articles.  If that is supported I suppose I had better nominate them all.  [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 17:10, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
:::That makes sense. But let's finish this as an example, then do groups. Tagging too many at a time just invites thrashing.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 17:15, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 01:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div>
*'''Merge (or Reverse Merge)''' Clearly overlapping in this case. I'll defer to others on the better name. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 08:53, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' I have sought sources on which term is better in general, but don't have anything comprehensive to report here. In principle, to "acquire citizenship" is a more neutral and inclusive term than "naturalize" (or "naturalise"), but it looks like the latter is used pretty much universally in English-language materials. [[User:Kestenbaum|Kestenbaum]] ([[User talk:Kestenbaum|talk]]) 06:14, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' — A lawyer has spoken. For those who notably acquire citizenship without naturalization, such as honorary citizenship, we'll just have to revisit the issue then.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 16:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Articles containing Old English (ca. 450-1100)-language text ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''withdrawn: see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGood_Olfactory&type=revision&diff=997535300&oldid=995908467 here] for more information'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:54, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Articles containing Old English (ca. 450-1100)-language text]] to [[:Category:Articles containing Old English (c. 450-1100)-language text]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Wikipedia's style for the abbreviation of circa is "c." per [[MOS:CIRCA]]. &nbsp;[[User:SchreiberBike|SchreiberBike&nbsp;]]&#124;[[User talk:SchreiberBike#top|&nbsp;⌨&nbsp;]] 01:20, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Speedy rename''' per [[WP:C2B]]. [[User:YorkshireLad|<b style="color:#049">YorkshireLad</b>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contribs/YorkshireLad|<span style="background-color:#049;color:white;padding:2px">&nbsp;✿ </span>]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:YorkshireLad|<b style="color:#052">(talk)</b>]]</sup> 11:33, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Italian communes ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Alessandria]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Alessandria]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Ancona]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Ancona]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of Aosta Valley]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of Aosta Valley]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Arezzo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Arezzo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Ascoli Piceno]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Ascoli Piceno]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Asti]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Asti]]
{{collapse top|More like this}}
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Avellino]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Avellino]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Barletta-Andria-Trani]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Barletta-Andria-Trani]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Belluno]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Belluno]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Benevento]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Benevento]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Bergamo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Bergamo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Biella]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Biella]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Brescia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Brescia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Brindisi]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Brindisi]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Campobasso]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Campobasso]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Caserta]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Caserta]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Catanzaro]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Catanzaro]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Chieti]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Chieti]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Como]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Como]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Cosenza]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Cosenza]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Cremona]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Cremona]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Crotone]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Crotone]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Cuneo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Cuneo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Fermo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Fermo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Ferrara]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Ferrara]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Foggia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Foggia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Forlì-Cesena]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Forlì-Cesena]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Frosinone]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Frosinone]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Gorizia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Gorizia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Grosseto]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Grosseto]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Imperia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Imperia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Isernia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Isernia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of L'Aquila]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of L'Aquila]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of La Spezia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of La Spezia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Latina]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Latina]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Lecce]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Lecce]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Lecco]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Lecco]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Livorno]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Livorno]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Lodi]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Lodi]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Lucca]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Lucca]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Macerata]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Macerata]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Mantua]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Mantua]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Massa-Carrara]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Massa-Carrara]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Matera]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Matera]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Modena]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Modena]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Monza and Brianza]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Monza and Brianza]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Novara]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Novara]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Nuoro]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Nuoro]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Oristano]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Oristano]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Padua]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Padua]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Parma]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Parma]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Pavia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Pavia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Perugia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Perugia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Pesaro and Urbino]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Pesaro and Urbino]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Pescara]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Pescara]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Piacenza]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Piacenza]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Pisa]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Pisa]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Pistoia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Pistoia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Pordenone]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Pordenone]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Potenza]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Potenza]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Prato]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Prato]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Ravenna]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Ravenna]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Reggio Emilia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Reggio Emilia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Rieti]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Rieti]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Rimini]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Rimini]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Rovigo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Rovigo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Salerno]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Salerno]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Sassari]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Sassari]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Savona]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Savona]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Siena]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Siena]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Sondrio]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Sondrio]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of South Sardinia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of South Sardinia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Taranto]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Taranto]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Teramo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Teramo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Terni]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Terni]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Treviso]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Treviso]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Trieste]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Trieste]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Udine]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Udine]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Varese]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Varese]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Verbano-Cusio-Ossola]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Verbano-Cusio-Ossola]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Vercelli]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Vercelli]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Verona]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Verona]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Vibo Valentia]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Vibo Valentia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Vicenza]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Vicenza]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Province of Viterbo]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Province of Viterbo]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Bari]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Bari]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Bologna]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Bologna]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Cagliari]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Cagliari]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Florence]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Florence]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Genoa]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Genoa]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Milan]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Milan]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Naples]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Naples]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Turin]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Turin]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Communes of the Metropolitan City of Venice]] to [[:Category:Municipalities of the Metropolitan City of Venice]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of Aosta Valley]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of Aosta Valley]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Asti]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Asti]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Biella]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Biella]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Como]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Como]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Imperia]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Imperia]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of L'Aquila]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of L'Aquila]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Savona]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Savona]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Verbano-Cusio-Ossola]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Verbano-Cusio-Ossola]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Vercelli]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Vercelli]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Genoa]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Genoa]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Naples]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Naples]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Former communes of the Province of Turin]] to [[:Category:Former municipalities of the Province of Turin]]
{{collapse bottom}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' As {{u|Marcocapelle}} raised at [[WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 13#Category:Communes of the Province of Florence and similar|a recent CfD]] (for which I was the nom), the usual name for these in English is "municipality", as evidenced by the fact that the parent is [[:Category:Municipalities of Italy]], which was moved there from "Communes of Italy" after [[WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 August 15#Italian municipalities|a CfD in 2014]].  Indeed, the closer of that CfD requested that all these categories be tagged for speedy renaming per [[WP:C2C]], but six years on seems a little late to try to do that as consensus may have changed.  [[WP:C2C]] doesn't seem to apply otherwise because this is a proposal to rename the majority of subcategories of [[:Category:Municipalities of Italy]] (a few are titled with "Municipalities of..." already).  [[User:YorkshireLad|<b style="color:#049">YorkshireLad</b>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contribs/YorkshireLad|<span style="background-color:#049;color:white;padding:2px">&nbsp;✿ </span>]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:YorkshireLad|<b style="color:#052">(talk)</b>]]</sup> 00:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' per nom, per earlier discussion, [[commune]] is obviously a wrong translation of the Italian word [[comune]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per nom and Marcocapelle points out that these are municipalities not (necessarily) places populated by flower children or the organized proletariat. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:34, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Students who committed suicide ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''no consensus'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 05:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Child suicides}}<br />
:** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Students who committed suicide}}<br />
:*** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|College students who committed suicide}}<br />
:*** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|High school students who committed suicide}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Trivial intersection. No notable [[WP:DEFINING]] link between the occupation and the manner of death. Also, High school and College students aren't Children, and often aren't minors. Many/most are duplicated or triplicated in the subcategories and other parallel subcategories.

:*Based upon [[WP:C2D]] by main article [[Youth suicide]]:
:* '''Alternative rename''' {{lc|Child suicides}} to [[:Category:Youth suicides]]<br />
:* '''Alternative merge''' {{lc|High school students who committed suicide}} to [[:Category:Youth suicides]]<br />

:'''Note''': Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their education status and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of siblings, and the occupations of their parents. See previous:
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29#Category:Chefs who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12#Suicides by occupation]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 21#Category:Suicides by occupation]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Drivers who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Clergy who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Academics who committed suicide]]
:[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:52, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* These ones could be disputed. It is not so much their occupation (student) but their young age which matters. Their suïcide may well be their primary reason of notability. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:06, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
::I see what you mean. A number seem to identify bullying and ant-LGBT slurs and these typically are "Suicide of..." articles, like with [[Suicide of Jadin Bell]] and [[Suicide of Hamed Nastoh]]. I don't think the student part is what's defining though. [[:Category:Bullying victims who committed suicide]] or [[:Category:Minors who committed suicide]] might be closer. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 09:26, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:::*We already have [[:Category:LGBT-related suicides]] and [[:Category:Bullying and suicide]] with articles. We have [[:Category:Child suicides]] (a parent, although it should not be, as College students aren't minors). Maybe replaced by [[:Category:Suicides by age]] as a neutral grouping?<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 13:18, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
::::*Added the parent [[:Category:Child suicides]] and some verbiage.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 16:29, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' in the current age so many people are enrolled in college over so much of their life, often as part-time students, this is less defining than the creators of the category act as it is.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 13:42, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* After [[:Category:Child suicides]] has been added to the nomination I definitely '''oppose''' deletion of [[:Category:Child suicides]] and [[:Category:High school students who committed suicide]] for reasons mentioned earlier. Together these are the two components of RD's proposal of [[:Category:Minors who committed suicide]]. I do not have an issue with deleting [[:Category:College students who committed suicide]] or [[:Category:Students who committed suicide]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:52, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' some of these folks are '''''only''''' notable for their manner of death, so some aggregation may be ok but outright deletion may be wrong. I don't like the [[:Category:Minors who committed suicide]], which although provides an arguably objective inclusion criteria (although laws among jurisdictions define minority differently and may even have internal differentiation with respect to what disabilities/protections of minority pertain to what ages) misses the point of navigation among school age folks (who depending on regional laws may have reached majority). [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 22:41, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
:* We may merge [[:Category:Child suicides]] and [[:Category:High school students who committed suicide]] to [[:Category:Youth suicides]] instead, C2D per article [[Youth suicide]]. That will probably resolve your concerns. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:56, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::* '''Merge Child and High School to "Youth Suicides"/Delete College''' I'm totally open to a different name for the student categories, since it's really the combination of youth and suicide that is defining, not their student status as a "career" per Marcocapelle. Delete college per JPL.  [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 19:18, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
:::*'''Acceptable''' to me, especially with the C2D per article [[Youth suicide]]. I've added as an option to the OP.<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 14:22, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
::::*I would have preferred something concrete defining "youth" but given that we have other far far less-than-perfect categorization schemes, I can live with that too. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 18:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Oppose deletion''' -- No objection to '''merge'''r.  I do not think we should be eliminating categories for children who killed themselves due to cyber-bullying or social media pointing those looking into self-harm to more webpages on that subject.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 16:59, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 13:06, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. Something I'd like to point out is that we have a lot of pages in these categories where the article pagename is "Suicide of ''name of person''", and the pagename "''Name of person''" is a redirect to the suicide-of page. There has been a consensus for a long time that the suicide-of pages are about the event (suicide) rather than about the person, and that the event is notable for our purposes whereas the person is not notable except for the event (as in [[WP:BLP1E]]). Thus, for example, we have [[:Suicide of Tyler Clementi]], to which [[:Tyler Clementi]] is a redirect, and [[:Category:Male violinists]] is applied to the redirect (because it's a category about types of persons), but not to the main suicide-of page (because it's ''not'' a category about types of suicides). Thus, I can see a case for renaming categories like [[:Category:Students who committed suicide]] to something like [[:Category:Student suicides]] or [[:Category:Suicides by students]]. In other words, make the category names about the suicides rather than about the persons. Once one does this, it makes more sense to keep the various sub-categories, such as for college students or high school students, because they are logical sub-topics. Furthermore, although I agree that suicide is not a defining feature for these various student groups in general, the facts that these pages are about suicides by these particular groups of young people, whose suicides were triggered by social characteristics of high schools, colleges, and so forth, according to large amounts of reliable sourcing that focus upon the school environment as having caused the suicides, these categories ''are'' defining ''of the suicides'' and should be '''kept''' in revised form. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:25, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Royalty who committed suicide ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete; {{u|Marcocapelle}} has helpfully suggested where the contents should be merged to upon category deletion, so I will do that'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 05:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Royalty who committed suicide}}<br />
:** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Chinese royalty who committed suicide}}<br />
:** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Royal suicides in the classical world}}<br />
:*** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Suicides of the Macedonian royalty}}<br />
:*** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Roman emperors who committed suicide}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Trivial intersection. No notable [[WP:DEFINING]] link between the occupation and the manner of death, even though the death itself may have been notable.

:'''Note''': Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their education status and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of siblings, and the occupations of their parents. See previous:
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29#Category:Chefs who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12#Suicides by occupation]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 21#Category:Suicides by occupation]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Drivers who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Clergy who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Academics who committed suicide]]
:[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* <s>'''Support''' per nom.</s> [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:08, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Clicking through several, the intersection does not seem to be notable even they they are defined by both. While it may seem that this reduces categories, they are also in their specific royal house/country and death by location, so it this is adding category clutter. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 08:55, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support in principle''', as trivial intersections, but it should be a merge rather than a deletion for most of these categories. This is the alternative proposal:
:* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Royalty who committed suicide]]
:** '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Chinese royalty who committed suicide]] to [[:Category:Suicides in China]]
:** '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Royal suicides in the classical world]]; add [[Cleopatra]] and [[Ermanaric]] manually to [[:Category:Ancient people who committed suicide]]
:*** '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Suicides of the Macedonian royalty]] to [[:Category:Ancient Macedonians who committed suicide]]
:*** '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Roman emperors who committed suicide]] to [[:Category:Ancient Romans who committed suicide]]
: - [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

:*Oh fudge, I was going to nominate those targets next, using this as precedent.... (If the royalty are trivial, the non-royalty are even more trivial.)<br />[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 22:35, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
::* This shouldn't necessarily stop you from the nomination of the targets, but the rationale for sure will not be a trivial intersection with occupation. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 23:08, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' -- This is NOT a trivial intersection.  In these cases (or most of them) there is a clear link between being royal and committing suicide.  Some were commanded to kill themselves (which is more like an execution than a modern suicide).  Others faced a political situation where they had lost power and killed themselves, probably as a preferable alternative to starving to death in prison or being publicly executed.  One of the Macedonians was given a noose, hemlock and something else and told to choose her mode of death.  That is not a voluntary suicide.  Similarly in the Roman world, it was accepted that those who had failed should "fall on their sword".  I suspect that something similar applies in the Chinese cases.  This is all quite different from most modern western suicides, which are the result of depression or other mental illness.  Thus today, a coroner's verdict of (plain) suicide is rare, but usual one being suicide during mental illness (or such like). [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:18, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
:* Do we need some categories along the line of people forced to suicide? [[User:Rathfelder|Rathfelder]] ([[User talk:Rathfelder|talk]]) 15:24, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
::* First I'd like to see some links to articles in order to check that this happened regularly and that it concerns a defining characteristic. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:44, 31 December 2020 (UTC) 
* '''Keep''' I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 13:06, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per Marcocapelle; if someone wants to write [[Suicide among royalty]] etc., and can given [[WP:SYNTH]] and [[WP:COATRACK]], no objection to inclusion as sourced lists. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 19:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Models who committed suicide ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 04:38, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Models who committed suicide}}<br />
:** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Female models who committed suicide}}<br />
:** '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Male models who committed suicide}}<br />
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Trivial intersection. No notable [[WP:DEFINING]] link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.

:'''Note''': Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their education status and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of siblings, and the occupations of their parents. See previous:
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29#Category:Chefs who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12#Suicides by occupation]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 21#Category:Suicides by occupation]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Drivers who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Clergy who committed suicide]]
:#[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 22#Category:Academics who committed suicide]]
:[[User:William Allen Simpson|William Allen Simpson]] ([[User talk:William Allen Simpson|talk]]) 00:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* <s>'''Support''' per nom.</s> [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:08, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Clicking through several, the intersection does not seem to be notable even they they are defined by both. While it may seem that this reduces categories, they are also in their specific royal house/country and death by location, so it this is adding category clutter. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 09:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Support in principle''', as trivial intersections with occupation. But, regardless whether the parent categories by gender are considered useful or not, as they still exist the nomination should become:
:* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Models who committed suicide]]
:** '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Female models who committed suicide]] to [[:Category:Female suicides]]
:** '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Male models who committed suicide]] to [[:Category:Male suicides]]
: - [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 23:13, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' -- The female models is well populated, which might indicate keeping.  However, this seems a trivial intersection (in contrast to royalty, above).  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:24, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 13:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom; trivial; if someone wants to write [[Suicide among models]], [[Suicide among female models]], etc., and can with [[WP:SYNTH]] and [[WP:COATRACK]], no objection to inclusion of sourced lists. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] ([[User talk:Carlossuarez46|talk]]) 19:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. This is a trivial intersection of unrelated identities and actions.--[[User:Namiba]] 13:11, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Grand Order of King Tomislav recipients ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:48, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose Deleting/Listifying''' [[:Category:Grand Order of King Tomislav recipients]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:NONDEFINING]] ([[WP:PERFCAT]] and [[WP:OCAWARD]])
:When foreign leaders visit Croatia, or vice versa, the [[Grand Order of King Tomislav]] is given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit. King [[Harald V of Norway]], Sheikh [[Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani]] and President [[Konstantinos Stephanopoulos]] are not remotely defined by this award. The contents are already listified [[Grand Order of King Tomislav#Notable recipients|here in the main article]] for any reader interested in the topic. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Background''' In the past, we've deleted dozens of similar categories for high ranking visitors and those nominations are [[User:RevelationDirect/DiplomaticAwards#List of diplomatic award recipient categories deleted in Categories for Discussion|listed right here]]. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''', again an obvious example of [[WP:OCAWARD]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:09, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' [[Harold V of Norway]] is an extreme in overcategorization. He is in 59 categoiries, but it runs to 11 lines of text because so many of these are fluff award categories.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 13:45, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
**If I counted right he is in 28 awards categories.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 13:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' this category is overall undue. [[User:Desmay|desmay]] ([[User talk:Desmay|talk]]) 14:33, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Military decorations and medals of South Africa in order of precedence ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 02:48, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
:* '''Propose Deleting''' [[:Category:Military decorations and medals of South Africa in order of precedence]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:SORTKEY]], [[WP:OVERLAPCAT]] and maybe [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]]
:We have a standard category for military decorations and medals of South Africa named [[:Category:Military decorations and medals of South Africa]] which sorts the contents alphabetically so the [[Van Riebeeck Decoration]] is near the end because it starts with "V". (With me so far?)
:But those same articles are ''also'' in [[:Category:Military decorations and medals of South Africa in order of precedence]] but this time the [[Van Riebeeck Decoration]] is near the beginning because it's an important award. I don't think this is something we do with categories, but maybe I'm being narrow minded. - [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 00:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
* '''Delete''', clearly a duplicate category, hence overcategorization. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:12, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
*'''Articlise''' -- This is a list article sitting in category space.  The creator has manipulated the syntax to place it in order of precedence.  [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:26, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
:* A list already exists in [[South African military decorations]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 09:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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