Talk:Vaathi: Difference between revisions

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This is a notable film. It should not be deleted and it should not be draftify. I can explain how and why this film is notable.

• 1: All sources are reliable and independent they are particularly talking about this film.
• 2: The production house Sithara Entertainments is a notable production house. It has produced lot of notable films. Such as: Babu Bangaram, Premam (2016 film), Jersey (2019 film), Bheeshma, Rang De and Varudu Kaavalenu. It is also producing an upcoming blockbuster film Bheemla Nayak. So yeah it is a notable production house.
• 3: The principal photography of the film also started and it is confirmed by too many sources. I added 3 sources. 2 of them says that shooting started today and those articles were published on 7 January 2022, so it directly means that principal photography started on 7 January 2022.[1] [2] And one source directly says that shooting started on 7 January 2022.[3] Also the official announcement poster says that filming begins.
• Therefore it is a notable film. I am removing that baseless template now. Hyderabadi (talk) 16:26, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The title should be Vaathi. The film is titled as Vaathi in Tamil language and Sir in Telugu language but Vaathi should be the title because everywhere it is first in order such as: The title starts with Vaathi here and here also Dhanush says Vaathi first. Here also they says Dhanush in and as Vaathi / Sir and here also they starts with Vaathi / Sir took off today. This reliable source also says Vaathi first, see everywhere Vaathi is first in order. So yeah it should be the title. Last but not the least, Dhanush works in Tamil cinema and obviously mostly his fans are Tamil people. So the Tamil title Vaathi should be the title of this article. That's it I guess. Hyderabadi (talk) 06:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hyderabadi: Thats not what the point here is tho Hyderabadi. Using WP:COMMONNAME the article should have a common name present unless both versions have a different title that translates differently. The common name for this film is Sir which is the English translation of Vaathi and the title used on both the Telugu and the common English poster of this film. Now in terms of order using Sithara Entertainment's YouTube page in the description section of two videos related to this film, it is clearly stated that Telugu comes first and then Tamil [1], [2]. Now I suggest for the time being we move the page over to the common title of Sir until more sources come out over the time period of this film's production. What do you think about this Ab207? SP013 (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The title of the article should be renamed as "Sir". Majority of the crew, such as the director, writer, producer, editor, etc primarily works in Telugu cinema. In that case, naming the title according the Telugu version is reasonable. Also, the English (common or more viable) title announced by the team is also similar to that of the Telugu version. Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 04:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@SP013: Ok. Let's also ask to Ab what to do. @Ab207: Vaathi or Sir? What do you think? Hyderabadi (talk) 06:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello all. My instinct would be to use WP:COMMONNAME of the film but the sources seem to be divided for now. Another arguement is Vaathi does not need any disambiguation (unlike upcoming film for Sir) per WP:NATURAL. However, an RM would be a better way to find a solution in such cases. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think that Vaathi is the right title for the article. I think Vaathi is also a WP:COMMONNAME. After Master (2021 film) everybody knows the meaning of Vaathi. And WP:NATURAL policy says: "Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names.". So I think Vaathi is the right title for the article. Thanks Ab for letting me know about WP:NATURAL policy. Hyderabadi (talk) 04:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging involved editors: @Ab207, DareshMohan, Kailash29792, and Hyderabadi: So I been looking around about the WP:COMMONNAME for this article and it seems that it is indeed Sir. The reason why the common name for this film is Sir is because 1. The direct translation of Vaathi into English is Teacher/Sir and the Telugu title is already Sir for this film. To add on to this the team of the film also refers to themselves as Team Sir as indicated in these two poster releases [3] [4]. So if the team themselves refer to the common title to be Sir shouldn't that also be the article title? SP013 (talk) 14:04, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it could be argued that Sithara Entertainments is putting Vaathi first, so that is the primary version of the film. Besides, I'm not seeing any evidence that Sir is more common than Vaathi because there are too few sources in the article to arrive at any conclusion. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@DareshMohan, Ab207, and SP013: why did Dhanush say in the trailer launch that Sir is his first direct Telugu film? Wasn’t he aware that the Telugu version is dubbed? Is it actually shot in Telugu?Theoder2055 (talk) 10:44, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Theoder2055 It is shot in Telugu even though there are some lip sync issues it is present in both trailers with Samuthirakani’s not properly syncing in the Telugu one while Dhanush’s doesn’t properly sync in the Tamil one till the end. But go back and look at the teaser it is clearly shot in Telugu also. SP013 (talk) 14:57, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SP013: I would be for a move to Sir. Per this review of the Tamil version Vaathi, a critic wrote that Being a bilingual flick, it does carry the Telugu flavour, but the sad part is many portions are not shot in Tamil, just dubbed. DareshMohan (talk) 11:29, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@DareshMohan@Ab207 I have felt this way for a while also. I have seen the making videos for the film and you can tell their primary focus was shooting the film in Telugu whether it be the language written out in the back in Telugu in the making videos and the cast and crew also being primarily Telugu. I have noticed also that between the teasers and trailers all the Telugu stuff is blanked out in Tamil and there was no real effort to replace the “Tripathi Educational Institute” stuff in Tamil other than a few places like you can notice on Dhanush’s shirt it says the “Tripathi Educational Institute” in both Telugu and Tamil when the Tamil version is supposed to be “Thirupathi Educational Institute” so hence I feel like we should move the film to Sir because Telugu seems to be a primary focus for the film. SP013 (talk) 16:01, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• FpEAXWKaUAAldJI.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:53, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The request to rename this article to Vaathi has been carried out. If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Sir (2023 film) → Vaathi – Judging the reception of the movie at The Hindu, The Indian Express, Hindustan Times, The News Minute, India Today and The New Indian Express, Vaathi is being used in those reviews as the primary term and introducing Sir only afterwards. To note, The Times of India published Telugu and Tamil reviews separately. Also to note that there're some reviews only targeting either Telugu (123Telugu, Great Andhra) or Tamil (Dinamalar) versions. As far as the title of this article is concerned, it's Vaathi — DaxServer (t · m · c) 17:05, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. I think the issue here is that the team did not choose a Telugu title for the film and opted for an English one. With films such as these, the question sought to answer is that is this a Tamil film or a Telugu film? From the reviews of the Tamil version, this is clearly a Telugu film. This review says that: The lip-sync issue is also there in many places.. This review says that the lip sync by a few actors goes way out of place in several portions, taking away from the scenes. This review says that shockingly some scenes were not shot in Tamil, and dubbing was shamelessly used.

For other bilingual films, the title of this film is the predominant language that the film was shot in. As established above, this is Telugu. This film was previously titled Vaathi because it was under the assumption that they would shoot all of Dhanush's scenes in Tamil (since he is a Tamil actor) but they did not. Since they shot 100% of the scenes with Dhanush in Telugu and then reshot a percentage of the film in Tamil, then it would be best to stick to the Telugu title. Also, the music director posted the Telugu poster first. DareshMohan (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above comments made by DareshMohan. It's better to let the article be remained as Sir. Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 06:07, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The title of any article is the one which is used by reliable sources, not the one that the film was shot in. From WP:AT the WP:CRITERIA's first sentence states Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject. The sources I've provided above refer to it as Vaathi. They only state Sir in brackets to inform about the Telugu version and do not refer to the movie as such — DaxServer (t · m · c) 09:31, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What about non-reviews? There are sources that give prominence to SIR too: here, here, here, here and here. DareshMohan (talk) 10:04, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There're other sources as well, which is why I am basing on the reception in RS. Also, your !vote rationale above is WP:OR which we shouldn't perform. And the titles of the 3 Tamil version reviews you provided themselves is Vaathi and not Sir — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There're other sources which put Vaathi prominently* (forgot to write) — DaxServer (mobile) (t · m · c) 12:33, 19 February 2023 (UTC) — DaxServer (mobile) (t · m · c) 12:33, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support: I agree with DaxServer. And also Vaathi is natural disambiguation. Also the movie is earning more from Tamil language than Telugu language. Hyderabadi (talk) 06:33, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]