User talk:Ched/Archive 20: Difference between revisions

This page is where I exchange comments with friends and other editors. All users are welcome to leave a message. Unless you state otherwise, I'll assume we are (or can be) friends. Feel free to leave any notes, suggestions, complaints, or anything else. I respond to almost anything reasonable, (but I'll only respond to vandalism or stupidity if it's funny).

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		The Anti-Drama Barnstar
		Thank you for participating in The Great Wikipedia Dramaout 2009, avoiding drama for a full 5 days!--The LegendarySky Attacker 04:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suport Ched, i'll be working hard.* Delete WP:CRYSTAL. .Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC) Jajajaj, do you think makeing a Simmons family artical could be good =).Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

An artical from the simmons family (Yes Gene Simmons) like the jacksons family do you think it's a good idea .Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank a lot Ched your a great guy. and i'm not that big of a kiss fan but i like some songs and the show..Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

=) TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Awww Man, I don't know what to say TO. That is one of the nicest, coolest things I have ever seen. Thank you. I am truly honored and humbled by this. ;) — Ched :  ?  01:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Nah, don't be. You deserved it. I especially appreciated your exceptional copy-edit today. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That's the coolest barnstar I've yet seen :D — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That's the coolest barnstar that I've ever seen too! Royalbroil 03:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I gotta admit, I'm pretty flabergasted here. It does make being here very rewarding, to say the least. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

What did you think it was initially, judging from the thumbnail and the heading of my post? TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't sure, and clicked on the pic right away - then I just sat there stunned. Just totally amazed me. ;-) — Ched :  ?  19:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		put your citation here Pedro thy master (talk) 20:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hope you like it. Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 16:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Why thank you Pedro, I really appreciate that. I'm always glad to help out where I can. Hope the article is going well, the last time I looked it had come a long way. I'll have to stop by and check it out again huh? Yep, I really like the Star, thanks buddy. ;) — Ched :  ?  21:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Keep up the good work Chedsky. You're doing a great job. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Eh, I'd be happier with a few more blocks. Law _{type! snype?} 03:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess I could go get a 6-pack, drink that, and then block anyone who edits my friend's articles. :-O — Ched :  ?  03:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Lightweight. Law _{type! snype?} 21:52, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello Ched. You have been invited to join WikiProject Software, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the Software-related articles on Wikipedia. You received this invitation due to your interest in, or edits relating to or within the scope of the project. If you would like to join or just help out a bit, please visit the project page, and add your name to the list of project members. You may also wish to add {{User WikiProject Software}} to your userpage and == WikiProject Software Centralized Announcement System == {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Software/Announcement-u}} to the top of your talk page. If you know someone who might be interested, please pass this message onto others by pasting this code into their talk page: == [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Software|WikiProject Software]] Invite == {{subst:Software invite|~~~~}} Thanks, Tyw7  (Talk • Contributions) 22:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched if an artical about an album that has not been realesed yet but is in progress and has confirmed songs, dose it not deserve an artical. --Pedro thy master (talk) 02:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Who confirmed the songs? Is there significant coverage about the upcoming album, or is it just a single article? Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline summarizes notability guidelines. Specifically, what album, I can go check it out. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:03, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Normally I would say no, but there are times when it can work. If you read through:

• Wikipedia:TenPoundHammer's Law

it will give you a rough idea. Then take a look at:

• WP:NSONG

which is part of the Wikipedia:Notability (music) guideline - it will give you a good idea.

Basically, it can work ... but only if there are multiple reliable sources that are reporting it. If you're not sure, you can create the article in a sandbox, and work on it until it meets the guidelines - then move it to main space afterwards. If you need a hand creating a sandbox, just let me know what you want to call it, and I'll walk you through that. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure TechOutsider would be willing to help as well - he's more likely up on the current music than I am, and he knows how to create sandbox articles too. He's done a ton of work on the Michael Jackson stuff, so he probably has a better idea on what will and won't be accepted. — Ched :  ?  03:08, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Ched sorry for the trobule. --Pedro thy master (talk) 03:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Ched. --Pedro thy master (talk) 03:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Daddy Yankee, and the album Daddy Yankee Mundial.

Looks like TO is helping handle this one, drop me a note if you need anything. — Ched :  ?  19:19, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched thanks for telling me about TO, he really helped me there, thanks. =D. --Pedro thy master (talk) 20:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

And if your not to busy could you check out the Simmons family artical, --Pedro thy master (talk) 20:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, TO is one of the good guys. Just remember, if he ever starts training for "admin", and goes to RfA - you have to support him ... lol. Anyway, I looked real quick now - I can see a few things that might help. I don't have time right this moment to do anything, but I'll try to help later tonight or tomorrow sometime. Do you want me to "fix" ... or just comment on the talk page? — Ched :  ?  21:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment, but if you want you can fix it if you want to, but take your time i now you must be busy, P.S dont worry i'll support TO if he decides to run for admin LOL =D. --Pedro thy master (talk) 22:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, about adminship, I don't think I have time for those maintenance tasks. I don't know Wiki-syntax that well, I don't know any kind of web-syntax that well, I don't know how to handle bots, most of my opinions at pretty much anything are pile-ons, etc. Hardly a good admin candidate. My goals have changed now. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

It is rather an acquired taste, and not for everybody. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

If I had a nickel for every time someone's bowel movements were mentioned in an edit summary... Law _{type! snype?} 05:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

lmFao ... point taken. ... ahhhh ... I got nothin ;) — Ched :  ?  06:10, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

If you would have done an edit summary like that in your first week, you probably would have been promoted to Arbcom. Keep up the good work and please, continue with the mantra that "No matter what you do, incorporate Number Two." Law _{type! snype?} 06:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I would very much appreciate your thoughts and considerations on User:Buster7/Incivility especially the sections from Safe Harbor down.--Buster7 (talk) 13:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I promise, I'll take a look here in the next day or two. I'm just not feeling particularly "civil" at the moment, so I'll hold my thoughts til I can be. — Ched :  ?  16:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Ched. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Canvassing.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

whatever. — Ched :  ?  16:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Nothing that you're familiar with CoM. Something has got my shorts in a knot, and it's best that I don't speak about the matter until my emotions have dissipated. — Ched :  ?  21:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Really? Because it seems like something I'd really enjoy learning more about. I take great joy in the suffering of others. Hahahahaha. Sick I know. God help me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

It would be rather unseemly and quite undignified for me to simply spout off with the first words that came to my mind. I'd think that in a day or two I'll be able to address the situation in a calm and rational manner. It's really not a big deal, but rather an "ego-bruise" that has already started to heal. It's honestly a very minor thing. I'm already feeling a tad guilty for my initial thoughts, but I suspect I'll be able to make my views known in a mature fashion shortly. ;) — Ched :  ?  00:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Ugh... I'm losing interest already. Too many big words and a diminishing of the glorious passion.

What is it the bad guy in Star Wars says? Let your hate out Luke, or something like that? Come on over to the Dark side Chedsky. It's all good here. :) No just kidding around. Sorry you're having a rough patch. Maybe you need a break and to leave the 'Pedia alone for a bit so you can mingle with all the crazies in real life. Then you can come back and visit with the crazies on here. Rinse and repeat. :) Is it hot where you are? It's lovely here. PEACE! ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes, but - as 7 of 9 once told Captain Janeway "Your passion will be your undoing". Come to think of it, I believe that Mr. Spock also said something similar to Dr. McCoy in TOS. ;) — Ched :  ?  02:14, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I see there is a lack of RfA candidates at the moment and I know there's a constant fear that we may run out of admins at any moment. What do you think about nomming Drmies? He's a royal pain in the ass and a devoted communist, but he might make an okay admin. At some point S Marshall and Kelapstick should also be reconsidered (I haven't kept track of how long it's been since their previous attempts, but I guess a couple more months may be needed?). And Michael Q Schmidt deserves adminship, but maybe he's stepped on too many toes? I can't think of anyone more devoted to saving and improving articles and I have total confidence in his judgment and fairness in upholding policies and respecting other editors. But who knows how that approval process really works. Anyway, just a thought. I'd nom, but I think my involvement would tend to hurt a candidate's chances, particularly if I were the nom. Too much gamesmanship and grudge holding. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:28, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look. I've never done a nom before. There's actually 2 other ones I've been thinking about; one that I think would breeze through it, and one that might be a bit controversial - but actually knows how to use the tools very well. I'll look through the contribs. over the next day or two, and see what I can come up with. — Ched :  ?  21:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

If you have people in mind do them. Best to go with what you know. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

One has said they will consider it at the end of the month, and Chzz is thinking about it. — Ched :  ?  21:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The July 2009 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 00:47, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Ched I made a new page called User:Pedro thy master/NASCAR Champions could you check it out when you have time

Wow, that's quite a collection of information there Pedro. I am very flattered that you would go to so much trouble to show an interest in something that I enjoy. To be honest though, it actually wouldn't be a very good idea to move it out into article space, at least as it is. Several reasons come to mind: 1.) It is largely a collection of articles that we already have (NASCAR, List of NASCAR all-time cup winners, and many of the various divisions that make up NASCAR) 2.) Also, while several of our best articles (FA) do tend to be a bit lengthy, this one would be too long to qualify as a particularly good article. 3.) Primarily though, the main reason that it would likely be shot down would be because we already have "List of NASCAR champions". One reason we don't want to let articles get to be too long is that some people have older computers with older browsers - and pages that get too big can cause their computers to lock up, or not display the entire thing.

Now, I don't want you to be discouraged, I think it shows tremendous dedication, and obviously took a great deal of work to put together. In fact, I not only bookmarked the page, but I also saved it so that I can refer to it often as I work on NASCAR articles. I think you are doing a wonderful job at learning Wikipedia, and I can certainly see that you have already learned so much here. Even those folks that have been here for years, have become administrators, crats, or arbitrators often suggest things that don't work out. I honestly hope that I'm not discouraging you, I think you have great promise to be one of best contributors.

Thank you again for putting the page together, I really appreciate it, and I'll use it as a reference when I can. ;-) — Ched :  ?  23:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, this dose not disscurage me I'll learn from it and keep on working, =D. --Pedro thy master (talk) 02:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Great! Cause I think you're doing a great job, and learning very quickly. ;-) — Ched :  ?  10:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

On the computer I am currently using, large pages like T:TDYK load very slowly. I was therefore obligated to open this page, per WP:BEANS. Not surprisingly, my computer did lock up :) decltype (talk) 10:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind if I have a bit of a chuckle ;P — Ched :  ?  10:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

<-- Not at all. In fact, I'm going to give you one of these:

		The Guidance Barnstar
		Awarded for your thoughtful comments here, an exemplary piece of constructive criticism. decltype (talk) 12:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Regards, decltype (talk) 12:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

hi Ched thanks for all your help to date

I noticed the page is still not web accessible

so presume it is still being knocked backed for amendments?

be  grateful of your  advice

Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 08:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

OK, I just looked again, and it doesn't look like anything has been done since my last suggestions. You still need to establish Notability of User:Paul-leeds/Dr. Peter McParlin and reference it with reliable sources before we can move it out into main-space. I'm sorry that I don't have the time to do all the work for you, but if you can point me to a good news article, or a good on-line book that shows why he's notable, then I'll try to get a referenced paragraph typed up for you. Simply because he was a good doctor is not an acceptable reason - there has to be some sort of verifiable proof that the good doctor is notable. Somewhere, I had left you a couple links to read through - did any of those establish anything that sets him apart from his peers? Read through WP:N and more specific to that article - read through WP:BIO. If after reading through those, you still feel that a good case can be made, feel free to drop me the URL of something that establishes the notability - and I'll gladly try to get it up to an acceptable stub quality, and help you move it into Name Space.

On another note, you'll really need to get your "signature" resolved before too long. Read through WP:SIG. Basically, at the end of anything you post on a talk page, you need to end your entry by placing 4 tildes before clicking on the save page buttons. The "tilde" is in the upper right of your keyboard - to the left of the number 1 key on US computers. Simply type " ~~~~ " (without the quote marks) before you finish your post. Place them at the conclusion of what you type. This lets people know who typed the message, and when it was left. I'll look in on the article in the next couple days. Cheers, and happy editing. — Ched :  ?  10:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Chedsky, I hereby nominate you to relieve Durova as mentor for User:Bluemarine. She's indicated that she'd like to pass the torch and I know you'll do a great job. Good luck! ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I do appreciate the confidence; however, at the moment I have 2 editors that I'm assisting, another editor I've promised to help with a FA, a FLC that I've been working on, and a DYK I'm wanting to get rolled out. A possible RfA candidate who may want a nom statement, another friend who is considering a RfA, and a promised nom statement at the end of the month. I'm honestly not familiar with Bluemarine, the situation, or the baggage it might entail. I am truly sorry, but I must regretfully decline at this time. I am honored that you think so highly of me though ;) (I could also go into what's going on in r/l - but that wouldn't be very "wiki-like": ;) — Ched :  ?  18:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Understood. But it would have been tremendous fun to see you at the center of that chaos. Good luck with your other endeavors. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

ched look a user, said he is intrest in adpoting me, (mentor) but i do not think i want to be mentored because your kind of helping me and i think youd helped me more tell me what you think. --Pedro thy master (talk) 02:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ched is my best pal on wiki. I'll call him on the phone and see what he thinks, because he's at work, if I recall correctly. Steve Crossin ^{The clock is ticking....} 02:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

That's sweet. Law _{type! snype?} 02:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Steve. --Pedro thy master (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

OK - I will take a look at this as soon as possible. I may be called away in real life for an Emergency Response item: (see: 2009 Collier Township PA. Shooting). I will take a look at this ASAP however. Pedro, please discuss any major changes on the article talk pages before making big changes. We are encouraged to be WP:BOLD, but we must also remember that there are many other people spending a lot of time to work out how things are done, and how things should look. It's good that you are helping, but when you are first starting out, sometimes it's best to talk to the people who work on the articles before you make too many changes. Don't worry about the 24 issues, Steve and I will get that worked out here shortly. Keep trying, and keep talking to the other users. We are all here to help each other, and we were all new at one time too. ;-) — Ched :  ?  03:03, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

In case you miss it; User_talk:Tanthalas39#Thanks_from_.27the_helpers.27  Chzz  ►  19:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... I left a note there. And hey, let me know when you decide about the RfA thing. I have no doubt you'd be good at it. — Ched :  ?  22:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ched would it be a good idea to make a Day Zero artical. -- 02:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to guess that you've already observed that Rvcx is back to what got him blocked for a day in April. I only knew about this because he was on my watch list for some since-forgotten reason. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey, yea, I just noticed that. I'm familiar with him from the Larry Sanger article. Actually, he did some good work on moving things to a more NPOV slant there - but I do remember back when the 3RR block came about. Hopefully he won't get that carried away again. I left him a "welcome back" note, but he's never been particularly friendly with me - even though we did agree on several things. You might want to put the Sanger article on your watchlist - looks like we might have another "co-founder" go round. Me personally?, .. hey - I have the utmost respect for Larry, I even joined his new site. Just not much going on there. I think he had a lot to do with a lot of our good policies here. I sometimes wish he was back here. What's your thoughts on the matter? — Ched :  ?  08:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Larry is now on my watch list. I see Rvcx is running the risk of fomenting the edit war. I don't really understand what the issue is. He's a co-founder, and is no longer connected to wikipedia, right? I've had offline discussions about citizendium, and it sounds more like what a citizen-built encyclopedia could be. The edit-warring and poor-quality writing on wikipedia are a constant source of frustration, and sometimes lead me to think that what wikipedia really is, is a gigantic social experiment being conducted for Wales' doctoral thesis or something. I often think wikipedia should be more restrictive. However, I gather that citizendium is extremely restrictive. Seems like there could be some middle ground somewhere. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:18, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I haven't logged into Citizendium for quite a while. The last time I really edited there was during a "let's write articles" drive, and I had tons of "server is down" errors. I have a ton of respect for Larry, and I first came across his WP article from a RFC. I had quite a discussion with QuackGuru for a bit. I respect how much he tries to do here, and he hasn't had a block for quite a while. At the time I had a very difficult time communicating with him. I really only wanted to get a very POV "list" out of the article, or at least have it evened out to a more NPOV reflection. I probably don't have more than a dozen edits to the article, but I've probably got over 50 edits to the talk page. It does seem like things are ramping up there again, so I will keep an eye on it. Hopefully I won't run afoul of Lara/Jennavica - I'm not really sure she cares too much for me. Not that it's really relevant, and she's always helped me when I asked .... Just an impression I've gathered over time. Citizendium has some great qualities, I wish it had some more support actually. It could make a great "counter-point" type of thing for us here. I've often thought if we could combine those type of restrictions here as our type of flagged revisions - the two sites could work well together. I kind of get the impression that there are some hard feelings between Larry and Jimbo - I think that's a shame really. I always looked at it like Jimbo was the "father" who went out and did the work to put the money on the table, and Larry like the "mom" who stayed at home and nurtured, built, and developed the project. Developing policies and guidelines and such. I think that Larry doesn't really get the notice and appreciation that he deserves - and even Jimbo has stated the same thing at times.

Hmmm ... I wonder if I could "mediate" a reconciliation between Jimbo and Larry ... LOL. ;) — Ched :  ?  09:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe negotiate peace between Iran and Israel, and then you'll be ready. :) I try not to worry too much about whether any particular editor "likes" me or not, especially as they don't really know me (except maybe for the very few that I've had offline e-mails with from time to time). My main concern is whether someone helps or hinders in improving content. That's the core of my beef with guys like CoM. I contrast that with someone like the Cyrillic alphabet soup guy from Bulgaria that several of us are in lively debates with concerning the Apollo Hoax article. We've had plenty of words about various things, but it hasn't stooped to the personal level, for the most part. (In contrast with the ugly war that occurred on that page some time back.)Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL @ the Iran/Israel thing. Yea - I'll get on that straight away. ;). I agree that it's not important that anyone "like" anyone here - rather it's that the project is designed to develop an online repository of knowledge. As far as Lara goes, well ... if you knew my daughter, you'd appreciate my situation. The two of them have soooo much in common, from looks, to the strong determined independent stance in life. It's hard for me to not transfer my feelings for my daughter - to an editor that reminds me so much of her. But, as you say, it's really not relevant. Lara is a hell of an editor, and a huge "plus" to WP, so I'm content with a mutual co-existence. I do understand your situation with CoM Bugs. Heaven knows I've tried to find a common meeting ground on that. If I had any way whatsoever of helping - I think you know I would. I'll have a look in on the Apollo Hoax article, and put it back on my watchlist - might be interesting. Ya know, you are right about the "we are not here to be friends" thing - but I've found it to be an absolutely wonderful side event. There's some folks here that I think the world of - in fact, I even offered one guy a place to stay if he needed it. WP is a torturous yet wonderful thing that is so complex that it's difficult to put into words.

Hey, if I do end up being able to take a road trip up to my buddies place to see some racing in Wisconsin, I'd love to stop by Chi-town and buy you lunch or dinner. You like baseball ... I like NASCAR, but I'd bet my bottom dollar we could have a hell of a good time.

By the way, are you folks hearing much about the shooting in Pittsburgh/Bridgeville/LA Fitness that happened over the hill from me? 3 women were killed, 10 other wounded, and gunman blew his own head off. It's really a big story here - but I don't know how much the rest of the world is hearing about it. — Ched :  ?  10:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeh, I saw the story in USAToday.com [1] Now there will probably be the usual battle in wikipedia as to whether to have an article about it. I stay away from those battles anymore, as the deletionists just go ballistic (pardon the ironic metaphor). Every one of these attention-getting shootings are the result of narcissim, or so says Dr. Bugsy. Nobody liked him (wonder why), so he's going to make them pay for it, randomly. Reminds me of a Dragnet episode that was the pilot for the late-60s revival of the old show. It involved a serial killer. When Friday and Gannon got the goods on him, he owned up to it, and they asked him his motive. The killer (played by Vic Perrin, better known as the voice of The Outer Limits) said, "I killed those girls because they asked me to." ??? "They said they'd rather be dead than be with me." So this kind of thing (killing yourself and taking a few with you) is not altogether a new idea. The Charles Whitman story from around that time is vaguely similar, except he had a brain tumor, which changes the picture a bit. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 10:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

And I see you're on it already. 2009 LA Fitness shooting is its current title. That's just one of the likely battles. Ultimately, deletionists will raise the "notability" flag, but with coverage in national media you'll have a better chance of keeping it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 10:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

←Yea, I wrote it up last night when it happened in my user space - then moved it out to article space when I had it referenced with multiple sources. It's been bounced around a bunch with different names via "move", but for now I'll just try to keep out spam and unreferenced material. In a week or so, I'll drop back in and try to clean up the references, and prose. If it goes to AFD, well, it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over - but I think there is enough WP:N and WP:V with WP:RS that will support it staying. Hopefully it will end up with a better title - but we'll see.  ;) — Ched :  ?  11:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Muchas gracias Ched, LOL, thanks for the classes there realy useful. P.S can you help me with my signature how do you put some color on the name? =D --Pedro Jose (talk) 19:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I made my signature by looking at other people's signatures. Look around, find someone's with a color you like, and insert your name in where their name is =). Como estas? I think that means how are you in Spanish ... unless it's donde estas? TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I think "donde" is "where". There are gender related things in Spanish that I've forgotten a lot of. a=feminine, o=masculine ... IIRC. It was so long ago, I forget so much of it though. Hey - just noticed that you helped with the shooting article - thank you! I've only gotten one pic of Norton - it's a box of 360 3.0 - as soon as I find the NIS, I'll get that as well. I'll have to check back in on your sandbox expansion too - how's it going? — Ched :  ?  04:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Do you meen the Simmons family, if it is it's going preety good, and yes donde is where her= ella, him =el. SYL...LOL. --Pedro Jose (talk) 20:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey, sorry to all - been very busy IRL lately. Pedro - I'll take a look this weekend at your article, and I'll try to get time this evening to help you with your sig. TO - I did get a pic of the Norton 360 box (ver. 3.0) - and will try to get NIS this weekend. Steve - I'll get something written up tomorrow on business.

Any friendly Talk Page Stalkers (esp. Admin.) The whole 2009 Collier Township shooting article thing is now a royal mess - looks like an IP tried to "move" by copy/paste - hence article history is still left at one of the redirects. When I get back, if it hasn't been done - I'll try to fix, then request a RFPP (I'd do it myself - but COI as creator and editor might not sit well). It should prolly be protected from moves (3 days to a week). Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events) it should prolly be "2009 Collier Township shooting" or something along those lines. I'll do a RFC in next day or two to get consensus - but all this moving around isn't helping a damn thing - especially when moves aren't done properly. Any help is appreciated. I'll be back online in a couple hours. Thx folks — Ched :  ?  00:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

<---That should be it, I think hope. Page is now at 2009 Collier Township shooting, with relevant history from both articles, including the name change by IP to the new article. decltype (talk) 00:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Heh, looks like a fine closure to me. But really, I never understood some people's dislike of Bishie...I've certainly never had any trouble from her. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 01:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm surprised I haven't gotten any fallout over it really. I know FT2 is a pretty high ranking editor around here, and I was a tad afraid that he'd land on me pretty hard for closing that. I just thought that the whole thing had pretty well played out and all. I mean, after Jimbo and ArbCom - where else is there left to go really? It seemed to me that both Bish and Daed both admitted to regretting a couple posts that got overly emotional - and neither one of them seemed to want to pursue anything further. I didn't see reviewing things that had happened 2 years ago as terribly productive either. I've never worked with Bish on any articles or anything, but I do rather enjoy a couple alt. persona things she's got going on. Seems like a nice girl/lady with an enjoyable sense of humor and all. I guess I was worried about nothing really. Hopefully time will mend some of the wounds, and things will be better in the future.  :) — Ched :  ?  04:08, 7 August 2009 (UTC) (cc to UT)

Nice edit summary. In Soviet Russia, AFD close you. Law _{type! snype?} 04:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I noticed that - missed a "y". Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to edit an "edit summary" once it's been posted yet ... lol.  ;-( — Ched :  ?  04:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I like how you close a highly controversial topic and fuck up on the edit summary. LOL. That's something I would do. Law _{type! snype?} 04:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

...kind of like speaking to a large important crowd in RL with you zipper open. Well done, ChadChed.--Buster7 (talk) 04:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL - yep that's me. I've done that a few times. The first I can recall was moving a wp:rip proposal out into mainspace - and I completely screwed up the spelling. Perhaps I should join the "Bathrobe cabal" - then I wouldn't have to worry about the zipper ...lol. I wonder if they'd make me give up my membership in the AGF Cabal? ;) — Ched :  ?  04:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Responses:

1. I assume you mean that in a good way. ;-)
2. Them's fighting words! ;-(
3. Ahh... come on. Tell us what you really think. >:-/

Note: the above post should be avoided by the irony impaired. — Ched :  ?  06:03, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Go be a BRC. I bet you get eaten alive. Law _{type! snype?} 06:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I believe there is a 10-story tall wikipedian who is considering that at this very moment. ;) ... A picture of Ched in a bathrobe... hmmmmm ... that may be a frightening thought to a few folks here. lulz ;) — Ched :  ?  09:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Note: I did look for a graceful exit here, but just couldn't find one.

		The Friendship Barnstar
		For your most excellent efforts in friendship towards your fellow Wikipedians, User:Buster7 would like to award you the Barnstar of Friendship. (note: This is an original "Friendship Barnstar" created, I believe, by User:Ched Davis.

Wow ... very cool, thank you Buster7. In all fairness, User:Huntster taught me my wiki-kindness. ;) — Ched :  ?  09:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey ched, i was just wondering can any wikipedian can make or create a barnstar?. -- Pedro J (talk) 17:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The basic answer is yes. You can see some standard ones at: Wikipedia:Barnstars. The people on the talk page of that should be able to help answer any questions about "how" to do it. I didn't forget about your sig. either - I'll drop a line shortly, after I get an unblock taken care of. ;) — Ched :  ?  17:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Ched, your a great guy, hasta pronto. =D. -- Pedro J (talk) 17:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Ched. --Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 18:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

np, glad to help. sig looks good. ;) — Ched :  ?  18:50, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Such a shock! I've fallen and I can't get up... ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... hey, I'm gonna get that Daytona pole one through FLC, my sandboxed 1957 article is gonna get another DYK, and once the fuss dies down about the shooting, I'll get that cleaned up too ... well, that is if it don't kill me first. But hey, I gotta stop once in a while to give folks a hand if I can too. ;-) — Ched :  ?  19:14, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

After the resolution of the WP:CNB removal of comments situation (see replies from I and Þjóðólfr), I feel that your !vote might be outdated. Since this is a close race, I would immensely appreciate it if you could update it (or confirm that you still oppose, if that is indeed the case). Regards. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 12:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm at 99 DYKs now and I want my 100th to be something special. I'm thinking about doing a large 5x expansion to some major NASCAR driver. Nothing is jumping out to me as being something that needs huge expansion. I spent over an hour looking at the stub and start class NASCAR articles and I didn't come up with much. The best thing that I could find it Banjo Matthews needs it real bad. I was hoping to take some big name NASCAR driver of Harry Gant's caliber. Has any article ever jumped out at you? Royalbroil 02:37, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

David Pearson is what jumps to my mind. I'd say pick someone you really liked when you first got interested in the sport. Gant would be a good one too I would think. — Ched :  ?  03:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Pearson is a great suggestion! My biggest concern was being able to do a 5x expansion - the article can't have been too big to start with. Gant's article would have to be HUGE! I was just looking at Tim Flock and that's another candidate. Thanks for your input! Royalbroil 03:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I just can't get over 100 DYKs ... wow! I wonder if that is a record. I've never seen anyone with as many as you have. Definitely going to have to come up with some kind of cool award for it ... that's for sure. — Ched :  ?  03:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I'm tied for 36th on the all-time list. I used to hold at around 25th on the list until I got a full-time job. I'm still 25th if you subtract out nomination-only DYKs and only count the 88 DYK articles that I've created/expanded. I'm quite proud of all that I've been able to do. There's an award for 100 and 200 DYK, but I think it's best to let a DYK regular give that award out because they'll speak more about what I've done (not only with articles but with the admin parts too). Royalbroil 03:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, your work is certainly impressive - no questions there! I'm just glad you took the time to get me involved in the NASCAR stuff. It gave me a direction to work in and all. There is just SOOOO much to do here. I do want to get the 500 pole article to FLC, and have been trying to improve that. My next DYK will likely be the 1957 one. I'm hoping to get a bunch of the redlinked years added this coming winter. Still want to get Earnhardt to GA someday, and the main NASCAR one eventually as well. There are tons of drivers who need to have their articles improved as well, and short of you claiming RTV - I'll likely be pestering you for help for years to come. ;-) Looks like you've decided on Flock - great choice! I really want to see a lot of those "original" drivers have more quality info in their articles. The tough part is that when you get back into that era - the web sources aren't quite as plentiful as the current drivers stuff. Let me know if you think there is anything in particular that I might be able to help with. I admit, my work on the pole article was because I saw it was at the top of your list as far as being important to you. I thought it was in a small way, a chance to repay you for all the help you've given me. I'm always willing to read through and help with anything though. — Ched :  ?  04:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan about developing those NASCAR articles. I'm glad it's given you direction. I've decided on David Pearson for my next DYK. I'm thinking about doing Flock for my 100th article created/expanded (minus the 10 nomination-only DYKs that I've done). I like the hook on that article - one about him having to do a pit stop during the race because his monkey mascot was going nuts in the car! Ya just can't make up something that interesting. Feel free to pester me as much as you want/need. And thanks for your work on the Daytona 500 polesitters article. I'm trying to help on it but it's so hard to find time in the summer with a full-time job, a full garden to weed and canning, plus hitting so many racetracks. I'm at 25 tracks now this year. I'm looking at around 30-33 tracks by the time the season ends in late October. Royalbroil 03:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

← Sounds like you have a pretty full plate. I can relate to that! I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements to both articles, and if you want me to look over anything - I'd be happy to. ;) ... I still want to put another hour or two into the pole article, but after that I don't know that I could do much more - except maybe just try a complete re-write from a couple of the sources. But I'm not sure it would be any better really. I'll drop you a line when I think I've reached the end of my abilities with it. Did you ask anybody to do a copyedit yet? Good luck at the tracks, it sure makes the new camera worthwhile huh? Cheers and best. ;) — Ched :  ?  12:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello Ched Davis. Seeing that you noticed the new edits on the Balkan League article and in case you have the time, could you please take a fresh look over the tone/style of the article to see if it's the appropriate? Since the txt in the article is almost a new one, if the problematic tone is no more present and the article contain no new inappropriate tone it would be good to remove the tone banner. In case you noticed new tone/style problems please inform me about, so to fix them. Thank you, --Factuarius (talk) 07:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd be happy to take a look. I may not get to it until tomorrow, but I will have a peek at it. — Ched :  ?  08:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

This is deja vu from similar events early in the summer or late spring, when someone tried to impostor Axmann8 for the sole purpose of getting him in further trouble. It's happened a couple times since. I'm suspicious of the banned user Pioneercourthouse, just because he's been otherwise active recently, and he did some impostoring early in the summer. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'll do a little research tomorrow (well - today actually), ... I'm not familiar with "Pioneercourthouse" account (yet), but I have seen a TON of socks (aka Assholes) stalking you. Feel free to drop me ANY links to crap that doesn't belong here. (NO ... don't link to CoM's page . ;)). I'll keep an eye open on the BBBfan ... and drop the hammer if it's needed. I suspect that you are absolutely correct that his account will be short lived. — Ched :  ?  08:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

"A ton"... so, can you imagine how much more of this junk would come my way if I were an admin? There's something to be said for being a peon. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I checked my e-mail and there was a note from a checkuser dated May 19th. There was a harassment account called Corpiestre that was connected to Pioneercourthouse, who's a long-term abuser going back about 3 years. Around that same time in May there was a Fondesep and a Horneldinkrag, which were doing similar impostoring but couldn't be tied to PCH. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

If you want more info on this, I'll send you an e-mail. There are certain things I don't want to talk about publicly. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I'll check my WP email and research what I can. I don't have "check user" abilities, but I'll certainly look into the situation as best as I can. — Ched :  ?  08:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Also look at WP:AIV where I'm trying to explain the situation to them without giving too much information out, but they don't seem to be getting the point. I'll send an e-mail to you in a minute. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Sent. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Replied, and I'll look into it. — Ched :  ?  08:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Sent another. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

← I see that through the SPI report that they are blocked now. Good call. Sorry I wasn't more help. — Ched :  ?  23:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

This may be the tip of the iceberg of an impostoring sock farm. The other related sock was created on June 14th. It was called BO2ip01. That's right around the time BQZip01 was being hassled by ThreeE and Grandma Dottie and other socks about this seemingly mundane article: [2] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like Versageek and Wknight94 have that one locked up as well. You're probably right about a bigger farm than we know. I wonder if blocking the IP would help? — Ched :  ?  01:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think it's done for now. We'll just have to wait until next time. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Ched. You have new messages at Tide rolls's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

If contemporary usage (by pundits and such like), and WP:COMMONNAME, dictate that we call an article about the poliical slur "Islamofascism" by the article name Islamofascism ... then why don't the same considerations dictate that we call an article about the political slur "Israeli apartheid" by the article name Israeli apartheid? BYT (talk) 21:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Responded on your talk - sorry I'm not up to speed on the geo-political front. — Ched :  ?  23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Seems like a pretty straightforward policy query to me. Supposedly, both articles owe their existence to the neologisms that kept them from being deleted, and not to geopolitical issues, which they're not supposed to cover -- except tangentially, as they relate to quoted usage in mainstream sources. What you've just said to me is a little like saying you can't offer me any advice on how to title the article Racial epithets because you haven't done a lot of reading about Indonesians.

With all respect, this is the kind of non-response that earns Wikipedia a bad name from people who are prone to create conspiracy theories as a means of explaining the project's all-too-evident and pervasive bias against Muslims, of which this parallel is only one glaringly obvious example. You can call the people who promote conspiracy theories paranoid if you wish, but at least they have shouldered the burden of offering an explanation, which is far preferable, in my view, to simply changing the subject and pretending that you haven't noticed the problem. That's what you've done here, and it saddens me.

I had hoped you could point the way toward a resolution of this matter, or perhaps connect me to someone who was willing to do so. BYT (talk) 11:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Ahhh .. OK, fair enough. I had noticed that you've been an editor for over 4 years, and figured that you were familiar with the process of Dispute Resolution. Here are the steps you should take then:

1. Open discussion on the article talk page: Talk:Israel and the apartheid analogy
2. As the page is fairly active, you'll likely be able to skip over the WP:3O process, but it never hurts to try.
3. If there is still no resolution (or WP:CONSENSUS), then I would next attempt posting to WP:RFC
4. If you are still not satisfied, you can try Wikipedia:Content noticeboard, although they may point you to:
5. Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal ... if that fails, then it's likely to get kicked up to ...
6. WP:ARBCOM

Note: you should try the first steps first, and not do all at once or skip to the bottom. Good luck. — Ched :  ?  12:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Right. Before I proceed, what's your opinion on this issue? Do you feel we should have a standard approach to naming conventions as they relate these two articles specifically (and note the inherent difficulty of using WP:DR to address standardization issues that affect two or more articles), or do you feel that the problem I've raised is not a particularly important matter? BYT (talk) 12:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

If it is important to you (or any editor), then yes ... it is important. Now let me add a disclaimer here before I give a personal opinion. There are many editors here who are much more knowledgeable about our Manual of style, and Wikipedia:Naming conventions, so if I was working on one of those issues, I would likely ask at those two talk pages before I gave any advice on what should be done. OK - personally I would prefer neutral terminology for "BOTH" articles if possible. I'd also work on addressing the concerns about the POV issues that both articles are tagged with. I don't care for negativity in articles, especially when it comes to the article titles. I know a lot of times people start pointing to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS when you "compare" articles. I also realize that discrimination exists, and that we have articles that discuss many types of it. Let me ask you a question. Is the term "Israeli apartheid" the MOST common name used by the sources used to reference and cite the article? (Note that we do have that redirecting to the article.) If it is, then yes, I would say that you have the stronger case in a discussion about it. — Ched :  ?  13:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe it is, though I hasten to add that I am not wedded to moving the page to Israeli apartheid. My personal view is that name-calling is name-calling, and that if Israelis would not intuitively self-identify as proponents of apartheid, then the Wikipedia project would be best served by calling the article Israeli apartheid controversy or some such. (Indeed, if we were applying policies and procedures in an impartial way, the current title of Israel and the apartheid analogy would work for me.) Of course, I believe that if Muslims would not, as a general rule, self-identify as fascists, then we're better off calling that article Islam and the fascism analogy or something similar. I believe there is some policy that appeals to this "what would the group call themslves" principle, but I can't recall what it is.

You should know that I edited for a while at Israel and the apartheid analogy and got sick of it.

Here are some of the "Israeli apartheid" cites that show up in the article: ^{[1] [2] [3][4][5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10][11][12][13][14][15]} Just as with "Islamofascism," the article addresses direct ("Israeli apartheid") and indirect ("Israel's apartheid yadayada") uses of the slur. In Islamofascism, consensus is currently that no comprehensive listing of sources disputing the link with fascism may appear in the article, but I confess that the reasoning for this escapes me. My feeling is that this reasoning changes periodically, but you can confirm that for yourself if you have a lot of time on your hands. (See Talk:Islamofascism.) The Israel and the apartheid analogy article features the kind of comprehensive point-by-point comparison that many of us editing at Islamofascism would like to incorporate, but have been told we cannot, most recently because the people we're attempting to cite aren't explicitly discussing the thirteen letters I-S-L-A-M-O-F-A-S-C-I-S-M in sequence. Thus the popularity of the neologism "Islamofascism" currently serves as both the reason for the article's "untouchable" title, and the justification for not offering the views of reputable people quoted in verifiable sources whose work disputes the validity of the analogy. A very different picture from that which we see at Israel and the apartheid analogy, and one of many gross inequities, in my view.

For what it's worth, "Islamofascism" (in quotes) generates ~220,000 Google hits. "Israeli apartheid" (in quotes) generates ~129,000. (Yes, I realize we don't make policy decisions based on Google hits, but I do think this demonstrates that both terms are in general use.) BYT (talk) 13:58, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Brandon, your logic makes sense to me, but I'm not the one you need to convince. I did read through some of the talk page comments, and as I said I do think you have a strong case, and you present it well. I did think of 2 other places that might be able to give you a more definitive direction as well. Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities and Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language. Perhaps one of those places could at least tell you where you stand in regards to consensus. Then you would be able to better know which form of dispute resolution you would need to follow.

What it all boils down to is that you need to convince the people who are editing the article that your wording is more in line with our policies and guidelines - once you've achieved that, you can rename the articles. Ask at the reference desk pages, see what they say, and where your next step should be. — Ched :  ?  14:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm. It is entirely possible that "the people who are editing the article" may not be persuaded by what I have shared with you here if they have not been persuaded by it after several years of my engagement on this. If it isn't clear to you by now, I should make it clear now that I am looking for help in establishing a consistent approach to the naming protocols on these articles. I already knew about the reference desks. What I'm interested in is an personal conclusion that there's a problem here, a conclusion that you or someone else is actually willing to stand behind. Which article do you think should be renamed? Put more directly: Which article will you help me to rename? If you'd simply rather not engage with clear cases of anti-Muslim bias when they present themselves in the Wikipedia, could I ask you to point me towards a senior person who is? BYT (talk) 15:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)