Talk:Columbia University/GA2

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Reviewer: Racepacket (talk) 14:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC) The article has undergone substantial improvement since the last review, and I am willing to review it again. The threshold issue before I begin is the question of how the History of Columbia University was summarized when it was spun off a separate stand-alone article. I believe that only a three-or-four paragraph summary be placed in this article. If you are looking for a model, look at History of Georgetown University or History of Cornell University. In other words, given the separate article, is the remaining material too detailed? I will hold off for a day or two for your response. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 14:26, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Examples of things that could be cut from this article, but kept in the History article:

• "The commission chose as the college's first president Dr. Samuel Johnson, a preeminent scholar who had received his doctorate from The University of Oxford, and had been sought in similar capacity to preside over the College of Philadelphia, now The University of Pennsylvania.[19]"
• "In the political controversies which preceded The American Revolution, his chief opponent in discussions at the College was an undergraduate of the class of 1777, Alexander Hamilton. On one occasion, a mob came to the College, bent on doing violence to the president, but Hamilton held their attention with a speech, giving Cooper enough time to escape."
• "During this period no president was able to be appointed due to the college's inadequate funds, which rendered it unable to offer a salary as would induce a suitable person to accept the office. Instead, the duties of the president's office were held by the schools various professors, which lead to discord between the schools faculties."
• "In 1997, the Columbia Engineering School was renamed the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science, in honor of Chinese businessman Z. Y. Fu, who gave Columbia $26 million. The school is popularly referred to as "SEAS" or simply "the engineering school."[40]"

Although these are interesting points, they are not essential to a history section given the separate article.

Okay, I'll trim those up and merge some of the paragraphs together.Nowhereman86 (talk) 15:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Thank you for nominating this article. Please fix disamb. links to Howard Koch. Fn 9, 64, 105, 117, and 217 are invalid external links.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A (prose):

   Why capitalize "Colonial Colleges"?

   "operates four global centers overseas"->"operates four centers overseas"

   There should be no spaces between the text and the following footnote markers. Commas come before the footnotes.

   "On the 21st of May, 1787," and "May 6th, 1789," - please use a consistent date format - drop the th or st.

   Notes number scheme is broken consider using Wikipedia:NOTES#Advanced.

   ", as a tribute of honor to the many alumni of the school that had been instrumental in bringing about the independence of the fledging United States of America." - delete as Wikipedia should not speculate as to the motives regarding their participation.

   "was in large amounts of debt,"->"faced a large debt,"

   "the cities rapidly increasing"->"the city's rapidly increasing" possessive????

   "of a true modern university.[56]"->"of a modern university.[56]"

   "acclaimed architects"->"architects"

   Please rephrase: "Some of these remain open to students, while others are closed to the public." - implies that the tunnels are closed to the staff

   "The name Alma Mater refers to a statue on the steps of Low Memorial Library by sculptor Daniel Chester French."-."A statute by sculptor Daniel Chester French called Alma Mater is centered on the front steps of Lowe Library."

   "gives governmental bodies"->"giving governmental bodies"

   Wikify "New York State Public Authorities Control Board" and use corrected name in article.

   How about: The [[Columbia University Medical Center]] was built in the 1920s fifty blocks uptown of the Morningside Heights campus. In 1997, Columbia's teaching hospital merged with the teaching hospital associated with Cornell's medical school, to form a combined [[NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital]] that remains located on both campuses and serves both medical schools. If you list the Allen Hospital you should also list the Westchester (mental health) campus.

   Please reword: "to extend generous financial aid packages to qualifying students."

   "$60,000 a year will no longer have to pay for tuition, room and board, and other fees."->"$60,000 will graduate without student loan debt." Make clear that the package is limited to the projected cost of attending Columbia. The fact is that all student loan components are ended, and that the parental contribution is ended for families below $60,000.

   "students from the School of General Studies."->"students in the School of General Studies."

   "A joint undergraduate program is available"->"Joint undergraduate programs are available"

   "The $250,000 used to establish the NYC Media Lab was provided by New York City Economic Development Corporation."->"A New York City Economic Development Corporation $250,000 grant funded the launch of the NYC Media Lab."

   "milestones in various fields."->"accomplishments in various sports." ???

   Please avoid "various athletic fields" because there are at least two different meanings. Racepacket (talk) 04:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

   "Some of the invited speakers to the forum"->"Past forum speakers" - raises unnecessary questions about whether they turned down the invitation or whether there have been uninvited speakers.

   Please be more specific: "Community Impact strives to provide high quality programs, advance the public good, and foster meaningful volunteer opportunities for students, faculty, and staff of Columbia University." - consider deleting sentence.

   "became “the most powerful and effective student protest in modern American history.” [199]" - this judgment should only be made with a quote. Why do you feel that this source is in a position to reliably make this judgment?

   Ahmadinejad - was he a part of the World Leaders Forum? Not discussed in those terms in the later section on protests.

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   "Columbia's library system includes over 10.4 million volumes, making it the fifth largest collegiate and eighth largest library system in the country.[68]" - You are mixing updated Columbia library holdings with an earlier listing of other libraries. This may by WP:SYN or WP:OR. Use a comparison that is found in another source and say, "As of 2006, it was the eighth largest library in the United States." Avoid "country".

   "A predecessor of Facebook, CampusNetwork, was created and popularized by a Columbia engineering student Adam Goldberg in 2003. Mark Zuckerberg later asked Goldberg to join him in Palo Alto to work on Facebook.[174]" - not clear whether CampusNetwork is a predecessor of Facebook or just predates it. Article is not clear if Goldberg joined Facebook staff or turned down the offer.

   "It is the oldest gay student organization in the world" - I don't have access to your sources, but please double check to see that they actually make this claim. Part of the problem is that most student gay organizations were kept very secret in the 1960s, so it would be difficult to determine which was the oldest.

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Many college articles include their Green Report Card - Columbia has a B+ grade.

   B. Focused:

   I would drop the legends surrounding Alma Mater and move them to Columbia University traditions.

   History section is probably still too long.

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

   No edit wars.

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   This article represents significant work by its authors, but a few points need further work. Putting review on hold for you to address concerns. Racepacket (talk) 13:01, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unless otherwise stated below, I adressed all the issues brought up in the review without any problems. Here are the suggestions that I had problems with or that were unclear.

1. Notes number scheme is broken consider using Wikipedia:NOTES#Advanced.

   I think I adressed this correctly, but I'm not 100% sure if this is what you were looking for. If not, could you pont me to a specific example because this would be outside my scope of knowledge in terms of coding.

   Close enough.

   Ahmadinejad - was he a part of the World Leaders Forum? Not discussed in those terms in the later section on protests.

   He was and the section did adress it: "In 2007, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was one of those invited to speak on campus. Ahmadinejad accepted his invitation and spoke on September 24, 2007, as part of Columbia University's World Leaders Forum."

   You are correct. I missed that. Sorry. Racepacket (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2. "It is the oldest gay student organization in the world" - I don't have access to your sources, but please double check to see that they actually make this claim. Part of the problem is that most student gay organizations were kept very secret in the 1960s, so it would be difficult to determine which was the oldest.

   I totally understand your concern, but I have good reason to believe that this is a very credible source. Not only is it in a book that specifically focuses on gay student organizations, but it is backed up by five additional citations within the book itself. I also found it digitized on Google books, so you can take a look for yourself (page 167, last paragraph) http://books.google.com/books?id=C7rvZ-ygiTkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn+0415933366&source=bl&ots=JqItRAmAoZ&sig=T8aSV1ZC9LBMJkGPZvG4yQ2LjmE&hl=en&ei=11StTc-fDs7TgQeN4JD8Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

   Thank you for the URL. I have read the reference and it is unequivocal about this being the first. Racepacket (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

3. I would drop the legends surrounding Alma Mater and move them to Columbia University traditions.

   I can understand where you are coming from, but it's only one sentence of information that adds to the history of the statue, and I don't think there's really enough content to warrant it being adressed as a stand alone tradition/legend.

   I was not advocating a "stand alone" treatment. I was considering a paragraph or section in Columbia University traditions. It is really your judgment call as to whether you are placing a burden on the general reader with this extra detail about the statue. Racepacket (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

4. History section is probably still too long.

   I did cut down the history section four more times, cutting out about another paragraph of information to bring it down to eight paragraphs. I really don't think I can cut any more out without digging into information that should be presented as a vital overview, but let me know what you think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nowhereman86 (talk • contribs) 04:24, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

   Yes. I can see the additional triming and am satisfied. Racepacket (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please continue working to improve the article. It is clear that you have reached the Good Article criteria requirements, so I am passing the article. Racepacket (talk) 21:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]