Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ma (negative space)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 01:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ma (negative space) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Prod and deletion are disupted. Prodder's concern is "Merely an English translation of a foreign word; non-encyclopedic". Procedural nomination, I'm not sure I agree with it myself (I'm doing this for someone else). UsaSatsui (talk) 17:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• This is the English Wikipedia. Our article titles are in English. We already have an article with an English language title at negative space which is just crying out to be globalized and expanded with discussion of non-Western perceptions of negative space, such as how it is perceived in Japanese art. We don't need a separate article under a non-English title. A link directly there from ma will do. Uncle G (talk) 18:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If I'm understanding the subject, ma is a negative space in a metaphysical rather than design sense. —Quasirandom (talk) 02:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I based the above on what I saw when I had a look at some of the books that Google Books turned up. They equated "ma" with negative space, simply pointing out the different perceptions thereof. I think that the problem here is that our article on negative space restricts itself to just images, when even in Western thought this isn't actually true. ISBN 088706955X pages 79–80, talking about Hegelianism, discuss art in general, for example, not just images. But then, the article does cite no sources and is a stub. So it's not necessarily comprehensively and accurately covering the subject as it stands documented outside of Wikipedia. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 02:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• absolutley agree Abtract (talk) 18:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The MA dab page can still link to negative space. Pastordavid (talk) 20:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• keep, if it is metaphysical, it doesn't fit into other article. Chris (クリス) (talk) 02:29, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • See above. Don't base your decision solely upon what has been included in a stub article so far. Base it upon what sources actually document for the subject, instead. Uncle G (talk) 02:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• I created this article to promote further discussion of a topic which I believe is just as important as the Japanese word 'Mu'. Mu has its own, quite comprehensive, page on Wikipedia and is interlinked with other articles extensively. Ma and Mu are related concepts and to have one without the other belies their importance. Perhaps contributors to the Mu article should be consulted as to the relevance and meaning of Ma. I have added more detail to the page, including references from well known graphic artist Alan Fletcher. I will continue to search for valid sources of interest surrounding its use in English. 0bvious (talk) 15:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• merge. I have added almost all the info from Ma (negative space) into Negative space and it works seamlessly (I'm not suggesting I did a perfect job) so that is the way we should go IMHO. Abtract (talk) 16:10, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article about negative space is relevant to the concept of Ma, but I do believe that Ma as a term needs its own page. It seems ironic that there is a space in the English language where Ma isn't (apologies for the bad joke). I believe that Ma (negative space) is more important that simply Negative Space. If only one article should exist it should be the former. 0bvious (talk) 17:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• For better understanding of the word. See how the word translated into English. [1] [2] Oda Mari (talk) 17:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and perhaps expand. a concept as well as a word, and the material is well beyond that appropriate in wiktionary. DGG (talk) 01:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment IMHO, Ma can not be translated as negative space. Translation of negative space is yohaku/余白. But it seems strange to me the word “negative”. It's intentional space to me. Please look at this. And in stage plays, films, etc., I think Ma/pause can be translated as “sound of silence.” Oda Mari (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. It's a dicdef. Don't send to Wiktionary, because it's a poor dicdef. (However, it has its pleasant touches: I do rather like the notion that ma is a Japanese word used by Lao Tse.) -- Hoary (talk) 15:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.