User talk:Sapphorain

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Sapphorain!

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Pourquoi ne pas créer des catégories comme Category:Physicists from Geneva, pour que lui et d'autres dans le même cas soient catégorisés selon leur nationalité?

Pierre cb (talk) 17:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Il serait plus correct de créer des catégories comme Category:Physicists from the Republic of Geneva (qui ne concerne pas les physiciens genevois après 1815). J'ai essayé, mais mes tentatives se soldent par des messages d'erreur me disant que je tente de faire quelque chose d'illégal. Sapphorain (talk) 19:15, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Je ne sais pas comment tu t'y étais pris mais j'ai pu le faire. Tu peux aller voir si ça te convient. Pierre cb (talk) 21:31, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Certainement très mal ! En tout cas merci. Sapphorain (talk) 22:07, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stop edit warring with the rename template at File:François Poullain de La Barre.jpg or you will be blocked. Thank you. –Davey2010^Talk 22:44, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of using them for meaningless threats, you might use one or even several of your neurones to realize that File:Francois Poullain de la Barre.jpg and File:Pierre Bayle contain the very same portrait. So one of them needs to be renamed or deleted. Sapphorain (talk) 22:59, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

?? This template is not a "super parent category", it is ... a template, conveying a very useful warning)

The template imparts "Category:Maps of fictional places or locations to all files it gets placed in. However, that category is a super-category to Category:Maps of fictional Earth which is parent of Category:Maps of alternate histories‎ which contains Category:Maps of The Man in the High Castle alternate history‎. That makes the template-imparted category highly redundant, and unnecessarily moves every file with the template into clogging that higher category. If you find that template so useful for fictional maps, then carefully check every other file with that template, move it to the correct sub-category individually, and finally remove the template-forced supercategory from the template. --Enyavar (talk) 08:03, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And afterwards also consequently apply the template to all other fictional maps, like those of 1984, Narnia, Atlantis, Arrakis, Handmaid's Panem, Westeros, Middleearth and the Drakka Empire. People need to get warned that those are not real places, after all. --Enyavar (talk) 09:00, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(1) The fact that this useful template is already visible on a parent category does in no way make it « redundant » here, as many users will never go to the parent category.

(2) The fact that this template is not present on many other items where it should be is in no way a justification to remove it from where it is present.

(3) The fact that this template is not present on many other items where it should be does not make anyone responsible to include it there.--Sapphorain (talk) 10:25, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are right in (3), because that would be making a disturbance to prove a point. (2) is a double-edged sword, because it's also no justification to keep the template where it's not strictly needed, and in those maps it's not, they're blatantly obvious fiction. However you're wrong in (1), because we have the Hierarchical principle as elaborated e.g. in Commons:Categories. Now, I was stating solutions to our disagreement above, and would like to reiterate and see your preference: We either remove the template from some already clearly marked ficticious maps; or we remove the category from the template. The first solution can be done on a whim, the second one may need deliberations with all other users of that template. Not doing either will mean that many fictitious maps cannot be sorted out of an overcrowded parent category while they're already placed in the correct child node. All the best, --Enyavar (talk) 15:14, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I don’t get at all what you mean when you propose as an alternative option to «  remove the category from the template ». I can see no category attached to this template. My position is simply that this template is useful on each fictional page, because if it is not there … well, then it cannot be seen there.--Sapphorain (talk) 20:36, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"{{Fictitious map|nocat}}" removes all forced categories. I changed all transclusions of the template and checked that an appropriate "fictional" category was set in each case. --Enyavar (talk) 13:00, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are getting on my nerves with your weird reverts.

referrring to diff: Geneva is a city in Switzerland point blank. The museum which curates the painting is located in Geneva. What is so difficult to understand this?

Ok, I misunderstood the meaning of the category. I will revert myself.

referrring to diff: 1555 is a valid date within his lifespan. If you delete such data, you can eliminate about 10 million artwork files which do not have a referenced source for the year of completion as well. Deleting the category assignm. which defines the year of completion does not help the project (except the year is obviously not correct)).

Sorry, but it's been four years since a template asking for a source has been here, with no effect. You cannot categorize a portrait in a year for which no one seems to be able to provide a justification. I will revert you again if you put this category again without a proper source.

referrring to 1 and diff 2: What do you mean and are you serious? Esp. (a) there is no supression due to the addings of these categories, and (b) the parameter <date=> does not demand a time. If you are asked on what day and month and year you were born: Do you tell the time of day also? You should not, because this is not demanded / asked. Following this way, you might be soon being considered as a vandal. Reconsider your edit behaviour (please). Mateus2019 (talk) 18:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are referring to. Same thing as number 2: No source on time = no precision on time in categories. I will revert you again if you put these categories again without a proper source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sapphorain (talk • contribs) 18:56, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please explain why you removed this category diff. Which category do you propose to replace it by so that we can have all the trials of alleged witches in Switzerland somewhere ? Nattes à chat (talk) Nattes à chat (talk) 16:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The categories concerning the Republic of Geneva (1534-1798 and 1813-1815) should not be nested under Swiss categories, but - if deemed necessary - under European categories. See for instance [1]. An adequate category would be « Witch trials in the Republic of Geneva » (with a possible parent category « Witch trials in former countries »). --Sapphorain (talk) 21:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As explained on Commons:Categories, "The category name should be enough to guess the subject, but some extra text can be useful to precisely define it", so I have added a precision to the category "Witch trials in Switzerland" to explain that it links files or categories associated with the current territory of Switzerland, therefore "Witch trials in Geneva" can be used as a subcategory of this category.

I did this to respect the "universality principle" defined on the same help page, noticing that :

• there is also a category "Witch trials in Germany" which is used for witch trials which happened before Germany was created ;
• Geneva and Switzerland are used in the broad sense, in Wikimedia category names, without having special date restrictions in mind, as can be seen by the fact that "History of Geneva" is a subcategory of "History of the canton of Geneva" which is a subcategory of "History of Switzerland by canton".

FreeCorp (talk) 09:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bonjour Sapphorain
Je comprends que Jacques Gruet et Marie Dentière (par exemple) sont déjà des personnalités de la République de Genève via Category:Men of the Republic of Geneva by name et Category:Women of the Republic of Geneva.
Cependant, ces dernières catégories sont cachées, donc les utilisateurs-trices sont amenés à penser qu'il manque l'indication du pays. Il a été nécessaire de supprimer la modif récente concernant Gruet et « Atheists from Switzerland », qui partait d'une bonne intention, mais qui est effectivement une affirmation erronée.
Il me semble plus simple d'indiquer clairement People of the Republic of Geneva dans les catégories, pour éviter ces erreurs récurrentes, ce qui éviterait de prendre du temps ensuite pour les annuler.
De plus, à ma connaissance, l'objectif des flat lists cachées du genre Men ... by name est de faciliter certaines recherches. Mais ces catégories ne rentrent pas en conflit de redondance avec les catégories telles que Category:People of the Republic of Geneva.
Il me semble que tout ceci va globalement dans le même sens que ce qui est expliqué précédemment par FreeCorp, ce 5 juillet. MHM (talk) 15:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

C'est vrai, vous avez raison.--Sapphorain (talk) 15:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merci. MHM (talk) 20:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]