Talk:Caste-related violence in India

I removed this section, since according to the links given, this is not a crime instigated by caste issues. This was not a case of lower-caste people being massacred by upper-caste people. It was an incident triggered by religious (and not caste) sentiments -- some extremist Hindus who regard cows as sacred killed people who were skinning a cow. utcursch | talk 11:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

• Religious sentiments ? You mean the Hindu religion? Does it include Dalits? Does it include communities whose traditional occupation is skinning of dead cows? Does it include the majority untouchable communities whose chief item of food is beef? What you mean by religious sentiment is just upper caste Hindu sentiment and the incident is definitely a caste related violence. El elan 05:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)Reply

I modified this section considerably -- the last paragraph especially seems to have been written by a very casteist person with a clear anti-Dalit bias. The major issues I had with it are: Theories concerning these crimes against Dalits range from "alcohol bootleggers opposing prohibition movements among Dalits" to "inter-caste relations between an upper-caste Vanniya boy and a Dalit girl". -- this does not have a citation. In the next paragraph we have a statement that violence against Brahmins was systematically encouraged by Periyar -- nowhere in the Outlook article linked as a citation does it state that violence against Brahmins was systematically encouraged by Periyar Ramaswami. The next sentence doesn't seem to go anywhere and seems merely an excuse to throw in a link to an article about the Hindu Munnani party (which I have never heard of before). It seems to be a bit much to cite that the DMK is an anti-Hindu party by linking to an article about an opposition party claiming that the DMK is an anti-Hindu party. The same sentence fragment states that the rise to power of the DMK party resulted in discrimination against upper-castes in TN. He/she also talks about the "canard" of Brahmin oppression as though Brahmin oppression of the lower castes wasn't true. The poster seems to be prescribe to a very narrow view of Hinduism = Brahminism. Next we have the weasel-worded construction of many Brahmins claim that many Brahmins... I think this whole sentence is obviously problematic. The last sentence of the paragraph is also similarly weasel-worded: Some people have stated...

Kumquat85 (talk) 01:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

Why doubt ? The page itself is not updated properly Almithra (talk) 17:27, 21 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

Why would this article be of low importance? This is POV of high class hindus who think that violence against Dalits is not really important. Furthermore, those same Indians should know that by the western standards, all Indians are dalits, since they drink the filthy water of River Ganges. 189.96.245.39 (talk) 15:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

Articles such as these are very biased since they are based on selective choice of incidences. Only violence against the so called Dalit is shown disregarding all other violence against other castes. Special:Contributions (User talk) 03:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

This is because dalits have sympathy today it is being used as an opportunity by selfish persons and groups to benefit themselves. Other violence is mostly neglected or reported as general crime, while that on dalit is highlighted. This is due to political and other gains of such persons and dalits are a easy prey for those causes. These violences when studied systematically show that all the castes and religions undergo similar cases in india.(User talk) 03:55, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Dalits should understand what is going on in the country and getout of such bias. Individual empowerment and freedom is more important than caste related issues. There is a danger that if the dalits once they lose the sympathy for what ever reason could get into more trouble than today. They should not try to play with the country by acting as opportunistic only for their cause. Equality is more important for everyone.(User talk) 03:58, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Dalits and others have a golden opportunity in creating equality and they should not lose it for short term needs and think in terms of long term needs of all. Here the case should not become as if oppressed become oppressors and politicians use it to once again push them to backwardness. Remember that politicians are ready to utilize any issue to their benefit brainwashing people saying that they are working for that community. They can very well switch their sides very easily. Here historians have done a bad work of instigating many communities as if they have seen everything that went on in the past and are painting a very wrong picture of the history. This will one day backfire and many communities will have to pay the price for none of their mistakes. Mistakes should be corrected not repeated. 27.61.167.151 (talk) 03:58, 12 August 2011 (UTC)Reply

I looked at this article and thought the same. Both the massacres mentioned in Bihar were revenge actions for previous massacres by naxalites targeting upper castes. I understand that naxals are very educated and have important issues, but killing innocent people is not the way to do it. Furthermore, it is even more worrying that naxal violence is not reported at all when caste violence is mentioned. Any fair reporting needs to be both ways. Further conclusions can be drawn by the reader, but the reporting has to be fair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.249.162 (talk) 23:45, 19 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Wiki Users/Editors,

I would like to order the page based on the dates I would prefer a format of YYYY Village, District, State. In case of casualties, specify that along with deaths if any. The heading from the sub page would have been apt.

Please share your thoughts.

Regards, Almithra (talk) 08:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

I'm not entirely sure that this page should be rejigged, I'd rather that it's completely rewritten with a better structure. Introduction, Type (there are specific issues at play here inter-caste issues leading to a contained fight between just two groups, within caste violations instigated by the Khap panchayats etc -- like the marriage issue in Haryana, one group against the rest and so on), significant instances, legal and political solutions or lack thereof. This may be a starting point. —SpacemanSpiff 18:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

This article either should be renamed caste-violence against dalits( which is not caste but socially oppressed section), or it should also includes violence among other castes like anti-brahmin riots in Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu, gurjar violence in western UP and among different castes! Although I know only Upper-lower seems to come into much spook but there is also lots of upper-upper and lower-lower conflicts! ( My name is Pandey and I'm not a Castist :P ) Pratpandey13 (talk) Pratpandey +1 on this — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.249.162 (talk) 23:48, 19 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

It is about just any caste. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:38, 26 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

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Is this a list? Why are there so many sections? AnomalousAtom (talk) 07:59, 5 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

2005 event, the source and google search says it happened in Bihar not Uttar Pradesh. So, I have made required changes. Heba Aisha (talk) 09:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

• [1] Here, someone changed the content that was sourced from book. The patrollers couldn't notice it and thereafter some useful content was also added. Hence, i reverted to earlier version and retained useful addition, that was made latter. Admantine123 (talk) 13:24, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

MRRaja001, i noticed that you recently added a quote mentioning various castes that commit atrocities on Dalits. In Bihar, you have mentioned Ahir, Kurmi and Kushwaha apart from Rajput and Bhumihars. I have been writing on caste related violence for long and i didn't find much sources about Yadav and Kushwaha commiting atrocities on Dalits. Kurmis were involved in "Belchhi massacre", but for other two, i don't think the books mentions the same. Since, it is not accessible, if you have access to book, can you provide the quote. I have tagged it for quotation and it will be removed if verification fails. Admantine123 (talk) 11:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Atrocities are committed on the "Untouchables' in the villages and small towns and the incidents of such cases are showing an upward trend. Atrocities are committed by the members of land holding castes, like Vellalas and Thewars in Tamil Nadu, by Kappus, Reddies and Kammas in Andhra; by Marathas and Kunbis in Maharashtra; by Bhumihars and Thakurs in Bihar, by Jats, Gujars, Ahir and Rajputs in Uttar Pradesh,

By the way, on searching Ahir in the preview, i found this text on page 490, that is given in the reference. This page has no mention of Kushwaha and Kurmi. Hence, i am reverting it to last version. Admantine123 (talk) 11:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi Admantine123, thanks for pointing this out. Actually someone edited these communities in between. I am trying to recover the exact quote and communities as per the reference. You can add or correct the content if you want. Thanks. - MRRaja001 ^(talk) 12:53, 27 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, actually when you added that part of content; it was okay, but here [2] someone made this edit and it was not noticed by the patrollers. Admantine123 (talk) 19:09, 27 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, thanks for your efforts in finding out the mistake in history. - MRRaja001 ^(talk) 06:25, 29 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

I was shocked after seeing this [3]. Here, in name of shortening long sentences in list article, a particular editor has removed two entire cases. "Singhu Border Dalit abuse" and another incident. What do you think LukeEmily, Fylindfotberserk, Ekdalian, MRRaja001 and Novem Linguae-Admantine123 (talk) 12:50, 7 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Your reason that the "Content was removed without proper reason" was wrong because proper reasons were provided for the removal.

Why do we need very long details on a list-based article about specific subjects when the list is supposed to provide only summary of the article? This removal was perfectly valid because the incident does not talk about caste being the factor for the murder. What are your objections? Editorkamran (talk) 13:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

In this edit you also removed "Lynching of Jagmeel Singh" [4] and the removal of behmai massacre is also not appropriate as it was not very long as you are claiming it to be. It is a summary of the incident only, so is true for all the incidents mentioned here. Also, no standalone article exists for these incidents, so whatever information a reader can get is from this article only.-Admantine123 (talk) 19:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

"Lynching of Jagmeel Singh" needs to be restored but rest of the other removals were correct. Incidents for which no article exists cannot be added here. Only notable incidents can be added to this table. Editorkamran (talk) 05:10, 8 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

• This article is a list thus descriptions about the incidents should be succinct. Only notable subjects (with their own article) should be added here. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 05:43, 8 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Abhishek0831996, but if this is to be done, we will have to clear almost 80 percent of content from this article as standalone articles of most of the incidents do not exist and no one will take initiative to create them, though all incident satisfies WP: Notability for creation of standalone article. Please also note that few days back someone put a tag for converting it into prose format from list. That should be done as we will have to clear the content for following the guidelines of list article, and that won't be good as seperate articles for most of the incidents don't exist.-Admantine123 (talk) 06:39, 8 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

That tag can be removed. This article is better as a list.

I don't see any issue with the listed non-notable incidents but unnecessary ones like "Violence by Ranvir Sena" and "Lynching and murder of Lakhbir Singh" should go. Editorkamran (talk) 07:15, 8 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Have you researched properly before making edits on this page. I don't think so. Ranveer Sena was involved in number of caste based massacres. If we consider violence done by them, then it is alone enough to surpass all other violence listed here. Yet, you are voting for removing it. -Admantine123 (talk) 04:31, 9 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

This article is about listing only the incidents, not the groups or organizations involved in caste-violence otherwise you would also want to add the politicians who have allegedly engaged in caste-related violence. Editorkamran (talk) 12:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)Reply