Talk:Disc (magazine)

First, the DISC system went into effect as of 1 March, 1959. Only records released on or after 1 March 1959 were eligible. Anything released on or before 28 February 1959 could not receive a DISC Record, as it was not eligible. Smith lists records from BEFORE 1 March 1959 as recipients of Disc's Silver Records. Notably, Side Saddle by Russ Conway as the first ever recipient . However, this never received a DISC Silver Record, as it was released before 1 March 1959.

Smith omits several records that did receive Silver Discs. (As just one example of many, the 21 December 1963 issue [1], on Pages 7 and 10, states that Kathy Kirby has been awarded a DISC Silver Record Award for Secret Love.)

Smith gets the dates hopelessly wrong, most notably perhaps Only The Lonely by Roy Orbison

Smith lists records getting Silver Records which never did... such as My Old Man's A Dustman by Lonnie Donegan

Smith misunderstands the difference between a DISC Record presentation, and a Silver(or Gold) Record presentation by the artist or group's record company. So, as just one example, on 17 February 1962 Elvis Presley received 2 new silver Discs, ONE was from DISC, the other was an in-house presentation from HIS RECORD COMPANY. Smith lists both as being DISC Silver Records, even though it is explicitly stated that only ONE is a DISC Silver Record. 197.87.135.139 (talk) 08:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

[2] Page 10 introduces it. And explains exactly what the Silver Records are, and how they are attained.

[3] Page 16 states that The Day The Rains Came by Jane Morgan has sold 250,000 copies in the United Kingdom. However, the record is "unable to qualify" for a DISC Silver Record Award, as it was released before 1 March 1959. Therefore, Smith's claim that "It is not known whether the awards were backdated as there are no records are[sic] kept by Disc to confirm this" is completely and utterly incorrect. It was repeatedly stated that only records released on or after 1 March 1959 were eligible.

[4] Page 8 congratulates the first 5 artists to be awarded. Note the date, and which 5 records they are. Note too that again the "Start Date" for eligibility(1 March 1959) is repeated, and why one particular quarter-million seller(Side Saddle by Russ Conway) was not able to receive a Silver Record.(It was released in February 1959.)

[5] The one-year anniversary of those first Silver Records being awarded. On Page 10 EVERY DISC Silver Record Award winner for the past year is listed... 38 in all. Compare the ACTUAL 38 DISC Silver Record Award winners to Alan Smith's list of Silver Record winners up to and including 13 August 1960. They barely resemble each other at all.

Then, there are still Alan Smith's post- 13 August 1960 Awards That Never Were...

Smith lists Lonnie Donegan's "My Old Man's A Dustman" getting a Silver Record on 26 November 1960. Problem is [6] as is perfectly clear that's not true. As seen on the front cover(Page 1) Donegan's then-latest single has reached 200 000 sales and is expected to get to 250 000 sales for Silver Record Award. Only, it never did. Worse, the record in question isn't even "My Old Man's A Dustman". It's Lively.

Did DISC Award Silver Records for LPs? According to Smith, they did. Smith's article states that on 7 January 1961 Russ Conway was presented with a DISC Silver Record for 250 000 LP sales. This would be true had Smith simply removed the word "DISC". [7]. On the cover(Page 1) The article states that Conway is receiving the Award from his record company. Nothing at all about it being a DISC Award. The same front cover(Page 1) also states "TWO MORE SILVER DISC WINNERS". On pages 8-9 we find out that those are "Strawberry Fair" by Anthony Newley and "Poetry In Motion" by Johnny Tillotson. Conway's Award was from his record label, not DISC. Another such award(which Smith doesn't mention) occurred on 26 November 1960. [8]. On page 8 it states that Victor Silvester is about to be awarded with a Silver Record for 250 000 LP sales. Again, this is not a DISC Silver Record.

Here's an excellent explanation of Russ Conway's Silver Record for album sales in the 6 January 1961 New Musical Express(page 7)... [9] So very clearly and unambiguously Conway had achieved total worldwide album sales of 1/4 million. And his Record label awarded him the Silver Record. Not DISC. Though both DISC and the New Musical Express reported it.

And then there's Elvis Presley's album G.I. Blues. Smith's article states that this was awarded a Silver Record by DISC. It wasn't.[10]. On pages 8-9 we find that Elvis Presley has just been awarded with two new Silver Records. One is his latest DISC Silver Record for Rock-A-Hula-Baby. The other, for G.I. Blues, was presented to Presley by Decca Records. As with Conway and Silvester's LP Silver Records, this is not a DISC Silver Record. When one counts Presley's DISC Silver Records, G.I. Blues is definitely not included. 197.87.135.139 (talk) 10:13, 24 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Smith also claims that DISC awarded the Beatles with Silver Record Awards for the albums Please Please Me and With The Beatles. However, according to the excellent website The Beatles Bible, these awards were in-house Silver Records awarded by the Beatles' record label. [11]. So, once again NOT DISC Silver Records.

Then there's Uriah Heep's Look At Yourself. Alan Smith/ASM claims that DISC awarded this a Silver Record. If true, it would be the only case of DISC awarding an album a Silver Record, ever. Sadly, I have no direct access to that week's issue of DISC. However, we have just seen Alan Smith/ASM falsely claiming that DISC's reporting of in-house label awards are actually DISC awards. Is this the case once again? Well, here's

page 36 of the July 8 1972 edition of Record World... [12] . Once again, it is clearly stated that "Look At Yourself" by Uriah Heep has been presented with an in-house award by Uriah's Heep's record label for total worldwide sales. So, again, NOT a DISC Silver Record at all. And here's a photo of the Silver Record presentation, confirming that it is definitely NOT a DISC Silver Record [13]

And, as per BPI Album Certifications...

• [14]. G.I. Blues only reached 60 000 UK sales in 2024.

• [15]. All Beatles albums were checked for Certification level in 2013. Please Please Me was at Gold level in 2013. In other words, at least 100,000 but less than 300,000. It finally reached 300,000 in 2020.(Although this may include sales-equivalent streaming.)

• [16]. With The Beatles was also at Gold level in 2013. Meaning 100,000 or more, but under 300,000. As of 13 May 2024, it has not reached 300,000 UK sales, even including sales-equivalent

• Look At Yourself by Uriah Heep has never been certified at any level by the BPI.

It is clear then why none of these albums were certified by DISC. Because none of them actually reached 1/4 million UK sales at the time of Silver Record Award.(Although Bronze Records did explicitly say that Uriah Heep's Silver Record Award for Look At Yourself was for 250,000 worldwide sales, NOT just UK sales.) These were all in-house Awards presented to artists by their record labels. DISC would not have presented any of these albums with DISC Silver Record Awards, as DISC required properly audited sales data before presenting DISC Silver Record Awards. These BPI Album Certifications thus confirm the authenticity and integrity of the DISC Silver Record Awards.

Did these actually exist? Gold Record awards were presented to artists/groups for sales of 1 million. But were these actually DISC Gold Records? Or in-house Gold Records that were presented to artists by their record labels, and DISC just happened to report on them? [17] On the back page, Jimmy Savile presents Elvis Presley with two UK Record Awards for sales of "It's Now Or Never". ONE is the DISC Silver Record. The other is a Gold Record. The Gold Record does not have the distinctive pattern that all DISC Record Awards have.

[18].On page 6 we see that "Stranger on the Shore" by Acker Bilk is receiving a Gold Record...for 1 million worldwide sales.

[19] Page 10 reveals the Rules of the scheme. NOTHING about Gold Records.

[20] On Page 6 we see the 2 separate presentations of Gold Record awards. One is to Kenny Ball. The other is to Acker Bilk. The two Gold Record awards look very different to each other. Because both are in-house Gold Record awards, presented to Ball and Bilk by their record labels.

[21] page 5 congratulates the Tremeloes being awarded a Gold Record for "Silence is Golden" achieving 1 million worldwide sales.

[22] reveals that Frank Ifield's Gold Record Award for I Remember You was awarded to him by his record company.

It's little wonder then that "Information about when a record was classified Gold by Disc is not well documented". Because no record ever was. And blaming DISC for The Archies makes no sense. DISC merely reported on it.

[23] Here are 6 Gold Records for "Sugar, Sugar". The English one is clearly NOT a DISC Record Award.

Here's Nana Mouskouri in 1971 with several Gold(and 1 Platinum) Records, including an English Gold Record Award for Over And Over. [24]. This is clearly NOT a DISC Gold Record Award. DISC did not present Gold Record Awards. Prior to the BPI in 1973 Gold(and Platinum) Record Awards were only presented to artists by their record labels, NOT by DISC.

(I also remember seeing that one of Engelbert Humperdinck's Gold Records was an in-house Gold Record for 1 million worldwide sales. I'll try and find the link.)

(And, according to "The Ultimate Cliff" by Peter Lewry and Nigel Goodall, all four of Cliff Richard's Gold Records, Living Doll, The Young Ones, The Next Time and Congratulations were in-house EMI Awards.)

So... DISC awarded SILVER Records for records that could reliably be demonstrated to have sold 250 000 copies in the United Kingdom. British record labels also independently awarded Gold Records for sales of 1 million copies, including 1 million worldwide sales. These were NOT DISC awards. Although DISC(and other publications such as the New Musical Express) did report these non-DISC Gold Record awards.

• • And here's a page from 1970 listing Gold Record Award winners in the UK up to the time. [25]. These Gold Record Awards obviously predate DISC by years. None of the Gold Records were DISC Record Awards, because DISC did not present Gold Record Awards, only SILVER Record Awards.

Here are Elvis Presley's first 12 DISC Silver Records:

1.I Need Your Love Tonight [26] 15 August 1959. (Page 8) (Smith says 23 May 1959)

2. A Mess Of Blues [27] 10 September 1960 (front cover, Page 1)

3. It's Now Or Never [28] 5 November 1960 (Page 2). (,Smith says 29 October 1960).

4-8 were all presented on the same day. This is because Elvis Presley's label had declined to have his UK sales certified for DISC Silver Record awards for most of the year 1961. However on 30 December 1961 five records that had all previously qualified were awarded DISC Silver Records [29] (Page 12. And Presley is said to now have 8 DISC Silver Records in total.)

9. Rock-A-Hula-Baby [30] 17 February 1962, pages 8-9.

10. Good Luck Charm [31] 9 June 1962. On front cover/page 1 it explicitly states that it's his tenth DISC Silver Record.

11 and 12. She's Not You and Return To Sender. On Page 11 of the December 22 1962 issue [32] we find that this brings Elvis' total number of DISC Silver Records up to this point in time to 12. G.I. Blues never got a DISC Silver Record Award. Smith makes a big deal about G.I. Blues' DISC Silver Record. It never got one.

So, what does that say about Smith as a WP:RS? Here, or about how many copies singles actually sold(eg. Apache, The Carnival Is Over, Sugar Sugar)?197.87.135.139 (talk) 10:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)Reply