User:Tribe of Tiger/Notes 2020

[[File:GOP rep Adam Kinzinger calling for Trump to be removed

Fuhghettaboutit [1] Teahouse

Nick Moyes- Nigel Bonner WP:TWAS

DGG - Atsuhiro Osuka

Theroadislong - Gerald Bonner

Hipal/Ronz Bâtes article, MEDMOS

Curdle- funny note, this year, about the hand!

MarnetteD - a great WikiGnome friend and mentor

Hroberth Dunbar. - German stuff, great first article

Bob, the IP

MarchJuly - previous exchanges

Kwamikagami - helped with tasks

Hoary - helpful conversations

Hu Nhu -article writer

Rahulsoman -article writer and a WP friend

Mollifiednow James D. Ewing article

TipsyElephant -article writer, friend

314WPlay- help with Iran article, etc

TheLionHasSeen - some religious articles

Ingrid Bergman several nice folks....Annenaim81 Filmman3000

For the first time in my 4.5 year WP career, I wish to write “my first article”, about a “zoologist, Antarctic and marine mammal specialist, author and ecologist” who died in 1994. Previous Teahouse comments said that we could ask Senior Editors about notability, so I am requesting your opinion. Here is my very rough draft: Draft: Nigel Bonner. The lede, and first two sections are somewhat fleshed-out, and the rest has rough notes. Please note that I have refs/sources in two places, as I have not yet added some of them to the statements they support.

Is it worth my time to complete this? I think I can gain access to the paywalled Cambridge obituary source, which may provide even more info. Perhaps between Bonner’s notability as an author, and a scientist, I can cite enough information to satisfy WP’s notability requirements. At this point, WP has four articles that refer to him: Bonner Beach, Bonner Lab at Rothera Research Station, and the South Georgia Museum, where a room is dedicated in his honor. He is also mentioned in Gerald Bonner, which is where I got the idea for the article. Thanks for your consideration! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 01:15, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Tribe of Tiger, that looks a really interesting page (and right up my sleeve). Yes, I think it would very definitely meet WP:NACADEMIC. I'd ensure the key notability elements were included in the lead - especially Polar Medal. I'd suggest creating a 'bare bones' submission, rather than putting your heart and soul into it and then finding someone reviews it and declines it, asking for more sources. So only include the bits you can be easily verified. That said, I'd be OK seeing it go straight into mainspace once complete. But at an AfD discussion, I'd be saying their contribution to science, plus their polar medal and the geographical features named after them were wholly sufficient to meet our notability criteria. I would say that this person's article does have the potential for a WP:DYK slot, if you're interested to go for that, too. It's the kind of thing I might even suggest you could email a request to the BAS to ask if they have a photograph of Bonner that they would be willing to release under an appropriate Creative Commons licence for you/us to use in the article. Linking to a draft/work in progress or to a brand new article would demonstrate the value of their participation. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:17, 2 October 2020 (UTC)  

Thanks so much for this encouraging and detailed reply. I shall follow your advice and move forward. This is where your background knowledge of “this type of subject” is helpful. The Polar Medal sounded quite wonderful to me, but I wasn’t’ sure if it would assist notability. I will add to the lede Asap!

“So only include the bits you can be easily verified.” That’s easy, in this case, as the entire draft is based on my online research for sources. I regret that I cannot access a library to look for print sources, (Covid) but it has been great fun, sleuthing online! I started with his name, and one ref, both of which were in Gerald Bonner, went from there. It was like a National Geographic adventure, for a house-bound person! I will both follow and consider your various excellent suggestions and report back to you (if I may) when I think the article is “ready”. Again, thanks for the confirmation and encouragement. Regards, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!}

Yes, feel free. I am very interested. One of my adoptees here on Wikipedia is an Antarctic geologist and retired professor - and he has one or two bits of Antarctica named after him (see here). I interviewed at BAS many years ago for a summer posting in Antarctica, field-guiding scientists (but sadly didn't get through) - and mammalogy is one of my many interests, and I also enjoy the online search for biographical information. So I'd be happy to help you in any way I can. Cheers, [[User:Nick Moyes 22:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

My frame of reference is limited, but my observation/experience has been that true scientists and academics are quite amenable to our WP concepts of proper references, (and COI) and comply with a degree of enthusiasm. My possibly “romantic” view is that they search for truth/knowledge, versus fame and glory. I am happy that you adopted BrucePL as a worthy editor. (I shall read, with pleasure!) We are very fortunate to have you here on WP, as you know the field of life science. I seem to remember something you posted a few years ago, about setting up cameras to observe birds (peregrines?) at your workplace. I am sorry that you did not get through BAS, I expect that this was a highly competitive posting. At any rate, this “older person” in the US thinks that your endeavors are fascinating, and has read your “About Me” user page section, with great admiration and respect! Mountains climbed, nearly one million plant records...then I saw that you had worked for the CIA! Fortunately, I clicked on the link, as I was thinking that you were also working in some sort of espionage, as in the US CIA. Spy peregrines, launched from mountain tops!

Seriously, though, regarding Nigel Bonner, is this important/worthy that he was “ President of the Mammal Society for a unique two terms“? I will include this in the article, but wanted to inquire. Thanks for your reply above. Sincerely,

Shackleton fund ^[1]

South Georgia Heritage Trust^[2]

Beginnings of South Georgia Museum: Lecture by Nigel Bonner^[3]

“ Obituary": Nigel Bonner ^[4] Need access to Cambridge (library source) for full article. Can ask for access to full article.

"Obituary": Nigel Bonner ^[5]

Fur seals ^[6]

Book sources:

• Wiley Library ^[7]

• World Cat better.^[8]

whitewashing information...[edit source]

Truth suppressors... Why does Wikipedia support the whitewashing of truth? what is so scary about the truth? Why do you support the crazy leftist agenda sweeping our world? The article on Satanic Ritual Abuse is absolutely WRONG! IT was not merely a "moral panic" - the only reason you would say that would be to suppress the truth...which means you support liars - which is what satanic ritual abusers are. So you are on board with them??!! This whole site needs to be shut down! 24.237.147.1 (talk) 20:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC) (reply)

Hi person editing from IP 24.237.147.1 I hope you are quite young. If you are, there's hope that you can come out from under the cloud you are under. If you are already an adult, but still so credulous as to believe in this nonsense, then you likely also subscribe to a huge body of quackery, misinformation and conspiracy theories making up an echo chamber you have self-limited yourself to for gaining knowledge about the world. In turn, you have almost certainly insulated yourself from taking in the fundamentals of intellectual rigor—or you wouldn't hold forth in the manner you have here.

That, in turn, makes it a near certainty that you are currently impervious to demonstrable empirical facts (and the techniques for both gathering evidence to learn about the true state of the world, and the meaning of the evidence itself once gathered, in order to learn from first principles whether something posited is likely to reflect reality); how to winnow out good secondary sources from the bad; to not rely on appeals to authority for information and how to research yourself and come to independent conclusions through surveying a dialectic of reliable source material.

I don't blame you, it's difficult when we have a huge industry devoted to promoting such stuff. In any event, Wikipedia employs a number of policies and guidelines that attempt to make it much more likely that, when followed well, our articles tend to reflect reality, rather than the side of fringe nonsense. We don't always get it right, but that type of moderate qualification is going to be lost on you, given the extreme side you are on.

Of course, you will almost certainly read this as the pompous talking down to from a leftist liberal godless asshole that it most certainly is; yes, yes, I was brain washed by too many years of education; Trump stole the election; 911 was an inside job; yes, yes let's take that as read. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of choice but to talk down when your post is what it is; re-educating you is beyond the scope of what can be done here. But understand that the chastising purpose of your post, the point you wish to make, is certainly lost on me (and I bet most reading it), not because I don't hear you, but because as much as you're here to tell us about our terrible errors, you're simply and utterly wrong, in a rueful headshaking, shrug-of-the-shoulders and what-can-you-do, eye-rolling-way from the adults in the room.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:21, 13 December 2020 (UTC) (reply)

If you mean that English Wikipedia, with its more than six million articles and tens of millions of users should be shut down because you disagree with an article - No. If you mean the article Satanic ritual abuse should be deleted, also, No. If you want to change the article, please first read carefully on the Talk page all the past discussions. David notMD (talk) 01:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC) (reply)

Osomite, good catch. Thanks. Your pings work, but I'm a volunteer just like you. Help on Wikipedia isn't real time. We'd have to have paid staff for that and we don't (and won't). D7keyes, I've left you a message on your talk page. You'll need to deal with that prior to editing Mr. Keyes's biography. BTW, per WP:BLP, I've removed everything from the article that isn't sourced. BLP requires inline citations for every fact. John from Idegon (talk) 21:03, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@John from Idegon: Reading WP:BLPRS, "all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation; material not meeting this standard may be removed." I don't see anything that says that "BLP requires inline citations for every fact" as you have stated. Would you please provide a link to the WP page that supports your assertion? Thanks! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 21:50, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, if an editor removes unsourced content, then it has been challenged. Therefore, adding a reliable source verifying that content is mandatory when adding it back. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:30, 12 September 2020 (UTC)(UTC)

@Cullen328: What you have said about "challenged" unsourced content is fair and reasonable, and I have no quarrel with your statement, nor did I challenge User:John from Idegon's "challenge". (The challenge seems to be "by the book, per WP".) My objection (or lack of understanding?), as I stated, relates to the declaration that: "BLP requires inline citations for every fact". AFAIK, this is not true. That is why I asked for a supporting link. Frankly, sports and politics are at the bottom of the rung in terms of my editing interests. However, I do wish to see our BLP policies represented accurately, esp here at the Teahouse. If I have not read BLP properly, I am entirely open to correction, which is why I asked for a link. I am not arguing in support of this particular article, nor about the edits that User:John from Idegon has made, but only about their declaration of WP BLP policy. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 01:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

It's about politics. There are few non contentious facts concerning politics. There's also no reason to give anyone any advice regarding references that states otherwise. If it's about a person, reference it. All contentious means is someone disagrees. Do you honestly think anything can be asserted about a politician that wouldn't be contentious? Not even all the extraordinary claims about his athletics career were sourced. As a matter of fact, unless the claim of All American that I removed from the article verifies, I don't see anything that shows notability. All SNGs do is suggest a level of achievement that should generate enough coverage to meet GNG. they're not automatic. John from Idegon (talk) 23:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@John from Idegon:Please, go back and read my edit. In answer to your question "Do you honestly think anything can be asserted about a politician that wouldn't be contentious?" no, of course I do not! My edit was made to question the declaration that "BLP requires inline citations for every fact", and that was the only subject I addressed in my edit! And that was my only interest in the topic. I did not state a disagreement with you in any other way! Yes, as a WikiGnome, I have made minor corrections to sports or political articles, from time to time, but they are certainly not my personal area of interest. But I do think it is important to state our BLP policies correctly, per WP:BLP. Many of us read the Teahouse, in order to learn. Stating our policies correctly is important. So, please, if I have misunderstood the basic policy, and there is a "page" I have failed to find, then do me the kindness of directing me to it. I only asked about policy, I did not voice nor do I have any disagreement with your edits to the article. I am sorry that both you and @Cullen328: thought that I was disagreeing with edits to the article. Sincerely, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:47, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Any editor interested in improving this specific article should make constructive comments at Talk:Bob Keyes. Tribe of Tiger, Wikipedia does not have a strict rule set. We use a flexible combination of policies, guidelines, essays, precedent, consensus and good editorial judgment to decide how best to write good encyclopedia articles. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Thanks for your reply. My personal perception regarding "a strict rule set" varies from what you are saying here. Many of them seem to be pretty straightforward, often quoted, and enforced using our "alphabet soup" of WP (very good, IMO) policies. I am not an article writer, and I really do not care about, nor do I intend to edit this particular article. I do thank you for replying to me, and will post any further concerns on your talk. However, in this particular instance, the phrase "scope creep"? comes to mind, but I will make any further cmts elsewhere. Best wishes, and thanks again, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 05:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I am approaching 3RR, at Lazarus Chakwera, who is the new President of Malawi. An IP editor(who has reached, but not exceeded 3RR), is adding unsourced info. The part that troubles me most is "He has several family members who currently live abroad and is believed to have gotten some financial support for his Presidential campaign from one of his brothers-in-law." When the editor reverted me the first time (after I asked for sources in my edsum) they said...."this is well known in Malawi. Please spread news not false news." Obviously, I can just wait this out for 24hrs, and another WP editor has also reverted them, and may lend a hand, going forward. I would not worry so much if the edits had been something innocent, for example, " he likes to eat XYZ for breakfast", but talking about campaign contributions is serious info that needs support.

My question to the Teahouse is: Do these sort of reverts count as "anti-vandalism" type reverts, which may not be subject to 3RR? Or, in this type of situation, am I still bound by our 3RR rules? It is not what I normally think of as vandalism, but the unsourced info has been challenged, etc. I have little experience with 3RR situations, thank goodness. I tend to err on the side of caution. Thanks! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, good question.

WP:BLPREMOVE says:

Remove immediately any contentious material about a living person that: is unsourced or poorly sourced ... Note that, although the three-revert rule does not apply to such removals, what counts as exempt under BLP can be controversial. Editors who find themselves in edit wars over potentially defamatory material about living persons should consider raising the matter at the biographies of living persons noticeboard instead of relying on the exemption.

So such removals of BLP violations are not subject to the 3RR, but still try to avoid edit warring and use other means if possible. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 01:29, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, it's best to reach out to an uninvolved admin and request for assistance when you are approaching 3RR and problem persists. Please note though that edits that clearly claim to be made to fix BLPvios are exempt from 3RR restrictions. Repeatedly adding contested material in a BLP without going to the talk page puts the IP clearly in the wrong; if they persist after being informed and warned, you can report them. Please see WP:3RR which lists edits exempt from 3RR; it has seven points, and obviously only one of them is about vandalism. Best, Usedtobecool ☎️ 01:33, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger I have warned the IP editor on that user's talk page. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 01:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@DESiegel: Thanks so much for looking at the situation, and warning the IP. Going back and forth, and reverting seems to be a fruitless exercise, which can be construed as edit warring. I will save the info about the BLP noticeboard, which I did not know about, thanks! I did post a note at the IP's talk, inviting them to the article's talkpage. But later, I noticed that their IP number seemed to change, from edit to edit. At any rate, you have provided me with the information I needed, and warned the IP. I will post at the noticeboard, or contact you, if problems continue. Thanks for your reply, and my thanks also to @Usedtobecool:, for the very good advice. Fortunately, by posting here, I have attracted the attention of a helpful Admin. The Teahouse is a wonderful resource. Best,

I notice that John from Idegon never answered my question about where it was stated that "BLP requires inline citations for every fact". No word on this specific statement from him or Cullen328. How is a new article writer supposed to know this? It is not stated in WP:BLPRS. Is this some sort of new, unrecorded policy, that one doesn't find out about, until a senior editor springs it upon them as a "gotcha" moment? Does it only apply to certain types of articles?

Cullen says: "Wikipedia does not have a strict rule set. We use a flexible combination of policies, guidelines, essays, precedent, consensus and good editorial judgment to decide how best to write good encyclopedia articles." How is a new writer supposed to navigate that? I suspect that this sort of answer was why the policies were formulated in the first place. How the heck is a newcomer supposed to know what is right or wrong.

Frankly, as much as I like Cullen, this is a BS sort of answer. It was a simple question: where is this stated in policy? No answer, because it is not, as I suspect, actually written in policy. Obviously, some editors would like for this to be the rule, because I have seen this sort of thing stated before. However, if we applied it, we would have "cite needed" tags peppering thousands and thousands of articles. It's perfectly fine, IMO, to say that a particular article needs to have more of the info cited. But, please, don't LIE about our policies. If the policy needs to be changed, then change it. But don't mislead editors about the requirements, as stated.

Iguanas and snakes: Where was this filmed? What type of iguana and snake? This YouTube BBC video [2] shows some type of iguanas and snakes, which are not identified. However, there is a longer clip from the original programme, which was broadcast on France 2, and has a complete voice-over narration, in French. I cannot understand spoken French, so I wonder if anyone here can do so, or otherwise identify the species of reptiles being filmed, and the location. I am not sure if it is allowed to post the second YouTube clip here, on WP. It can be found on YouTube by searching for "iguane vs serpents" and choosing the "ZAPPING SAUVAGE" clip, which runs for 5:13 minutes. Absolutely amazing! And if you like wildlife videos, well-worth the five minutes. Thanks!

You can turn on English subtitles. However the clip does not say where or exactly what animals these are. Someone in the comments also asked exactly your questions without answer. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:29, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The BBC site says this is Galapagos Islands.[3] Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:24, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The animals are Amblyrhynchus cristatus and Galapagos racer. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:25, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger}} if you mean this video [4] then yes I think linking to it is fine. I'm not entirely sure what Zapping Sauvage is, but the tick is a positive sign. The about page isn't as clear as I would like (at least based on a machine translation) [5] but Matthieu Briere seems to be associated with France TV. I think it's reasonable to assume the channel is in some way associated with France TV and therefore concerns about linking to known or suspected external copyright violation do not apply. Nil Einne (talk) 19:24, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

@Nil Einne: Yes, this is the video! I did not know about the "tick", as an attribute/attribution, etc,, per copyright, on YT. I did remember, from a year or two ago, some discussions regarding YouTube links, and wished to be careful, per your reference to external copyright violation. Thanks so much, very helpful. I will save your useful cmts for future references to articles. Sincere thanks, User:Tribe of Tiger

Commentary regarding abuse of snakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcdoWe-g2OM&list=PLgfFdKv10E80DySCMhTA8vD2yHoaOpYPd&index=27 https://video.nationalgeographic.com/tv/snake-salvation/00000144-1106-db5f-af65-d7a6ffb90000?source=relatedvideo

https://video.nationalgeographic.com/tv/snake-salvation/00000144-1107-db5f-af65-d7a73bff0000?source=relatedvideo Abuse of snakes ^[9]

Snake antivenom is complicated for manufacturers to produce. ^[10] When weighed against profitability (especially for sale in poorer regions), the result is that many snake antivenoms, world-wide, are very expensive. Availablility, from region to region, also varies.^[11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aOlNiRC3jI antivenom, Youtube.

https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/biotechnology/search-better-antivenoms-heats-snakebites/97/i4 another source The search for better antivenoms heats up as snakebites get renewed attention, C&EN, Biotechnology. Dinsa Sachen. Jan 28, 2019. Vol 97 Issue 4

https://www.who.int/bloodproducts/AntivenomGLrevWHO_TRS_1004_web_Annex_5.pdf ^[12]

^[13]

On June 9th, 2017 WHO categorized snakebite envenomation into the Category A of the Neglected Tropical Diseases. This new situation will allow access to new funding, paving the way for wider and deeper researches. It should also expand the accessibility of antivenoms. Let us hope that it also leads to cooperation among stakeholders, aiming at improving the management of snakebites in developing countries^[14]

GOOD SOURCE Snakebite envenoming ^[15]

REWORD ABOVE In 2017, WHO categorized snakebite envenomation as a Neglected Tropical Disease (Category A). They wish to encourage research, expand accessibility of antivenoms, and improve snakebite management in "developing countries".^[14]

weird article ^[16]

coral snake antivenom refs:

copied from Coral snake article:

The existing American coral snake antivenom stock technically expired in 2008, but the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has extended the expiration date every year through to at least 30th April 2017.^[17][18] Foreign pharmaceutical manufacturers have produced other coral snake antivenoms, but the costs of licensing them in the United States have stalled availability (see above).^[19] In 2013, Pfizer was reportedly working on a new batch of antivenom but had not announced when it would become available.^[18] As of 2016^[update], the Venom Immunochemistry, Pharmacology and Emergency Response (VIPER) institute of the University of Arizona College of Medicine was enrolling participants in a clinical trial of INA2013, a "novel antivenom," according to the Florida Poison Information Center.^[20][21] Copy stops here

^[22]

In Australia, a single dose is available, without prescription, and costs AU$20; for those with a prescription, five doses can bought for AU$40, amounting to a rate of eight dollars per dose.^[23]

Russell's viper commonly known as Ghonus in Rajiv Gandhi Zoological Park, Katraj, Pune

>claire and Scobie turned their Mooramong estate into a menagerie of animals, mainly dogs, adams second love were animals with a preference for dogs hence, her legacy and contribution to the Lort Smith animal hospital.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.au/collections/mooramong-claire-adams-mackinnon/ Quote: "Claire Adams’ love of animals, particularly horses and dogs, is evident from her film career, which include two adaptations of the novel Black Beauty. Her oft-cited claim that Rin Tin Tin was “her favourite leading man” was perhaps not a joke."

http://www.screeningthepast.com/2015/06/in-the-best-film-star-tradition-claire-adams-and-mooramong/ great source of info

I wanted to report copyright / blatant copy paste issue on the page Devendrakula Velalar which has content copied from thispdf in the url however it is not possible to report on page. What is going on? I read insctruction on wikipedia page about tagging copy right issue but editing not possible in that page it seems. JagatRaxak (talk) 17:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, JagatRaxak} I will look into the issue. [User:DESiegel|DES]] ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

If you can't edit the article, you can raise the problem at Talk:Devendrakula Velalar. --[User:David Biddulph|David Biddulph]] ([User talk:David Biddulph|talk]]) 18:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

JagatRaxak} I have removed the copied text. I considered re-writing it, but the source from whoich it is copied is missing key info such as the author's name, and seems to come from a thesis database, so it may not be a reliable source. I have used revision deletion to hide all revisions of the page (some 155) that included the copied text. The copied content did not have much context in the article in any case, and seemed to me of quite limited value. But this is not a field I claim to know well.

The page was fully protected earlier this month because of extensive edit warring. Edit requests and reports of problems may be made at Talk:Devendrakula Velalar. The page would, in my view, benefit from much work. [User:DESiegel|DES]] [User talk:DESiegel|^(talk)]]_{DESiegel Contribs} 20:08, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Sigh...while you are at it,{u|DESiegel}, the "Inscription" section has been closely/mostly copied from the same pdf in the url, see page ten. The only difference, afaict, is a change in names from Pallas to Devendrakula Velalar. I would be willing to try to rewrite this charming story, if someone can confirm the source, re:ibid. It seems to be from K.R.Hanumanthan, as cited in the article? I However, don't understand why Pallas was changed to Devendrakula Velalar. Sorry for the bother. Pinging |JagatRaxak}} also. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger Thanks. From what I read on the talk page of this article, at least one editor thinks that "Devendrakula Velalar" is the proper name for the group others call "Pallas". Personally I don't know enough about the topic to have an opinion. The PDF linked above seems to be a chapter of a thesis, dn does not include any author's name. Perhaps the first part would, but I couldn't find that on the site. [User:DESiegel|DES]] [User talk:DESiegel|^(talk)]]_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

https://sg.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/139551/9/09_chapter%203.pdf see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devendrakula_Velalar

As a run-of-the-mill US "Christian" type person, I have respect for other people's origin stories. I have attempted to paraphrase the "medieval inscription" noted in the article. If you think this is of use, please substitute if you think that it is good to do so. Or, I will do so later. I would love to see the original, so that I might do a better WP job, etc. As I stated before, it is a charming story.

Devendrakula Velalar An inscription from the medieval period compares the Kudumbarand the Pandya kings. At some point, there was a severe famine in the countries of Chera, Chola and Pandya. Because of the famine, the king of Pandya went to Devendra. The king approached, and "sat on the same level with him [Devendra] and demanded equal privileges with him". As a result, the king returned to earth, accompanied by four devakanniar. He cultivated sugar canes, plantain, palmyra and several varieties of rice, which he brought with him from the heavenly realm. He also resolved the drought in the area, by producing twelve thousand wells in one day. In honor of his accomplishments, he was given the title Devendra Kudumban and "bestowed [given] some privileges".

This legend is used to explain the cultivation of “wet crops”, like sugar cane, plantain and rice, by the Devendrakula Velalar, from ancient times, and their expertise in maintaining such crops.

Kwamikagami posted the list, thanks [[6]] Sir Henry at N'didi's Kraal. This appears to work, no curly, why does it not appear ths way when I tried a page move to correct the title? N'didi's Kraal. Women's Organization

redirect problem? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marc_René,_Marquis_de_Voyer_de_Paulmy_d%27Argenson&oldid=968392513

Group https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ingushetia&oldid=963564727

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suleymans_Eagle&oldid=934373023 apostrophe

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ingush_people&oldid=965865565

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mamilov%60s&oldid=934373035 apostrophe https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/10/16/in-ingushetia-russia-smallest-region-protests-are-reaching-a-boiling-point-a63210 https://oc-media.org/court-in-ingushetia-considers-falsified-vote-on-chechnya-land-deal/

Sirigu_Women’s_Organisation_for_Pottery_and_Art, Sir_Henry_at_N'didi’s_Kraal, Simi_Selects_India’s_Most_Desirable, Sikkim_National_People’s_Party, Sibi,_l’âme_du_violon, Shoulder_to_Shoulder’s_Role_in_Education_in_Honduras, Shanghai_Men’s_Volleyball_Club, Seychelles_People’s_Progressive_Front, Service_de_Renseignement_de_l’État, Service_de_police_de_l’agglomération_de_Longueuil, Servei_Andorrà_d’Atenció_Sanitària, Serbian_Journalists’_Association_Building, Secrétariat_à_la_réforme_des_institutions_démocratiques_et_à_l’accès_à_l’information, Scortecci’s_blind_snake, Scipione_Pannocchieschi_d’Elci, Schmidt’s_blind_snake, Sarmatova’s_Garden, Sami’s_Law, Sakar_Khan’s_Dargah, Sadhimataji’s_temple, Sheerluck_Jones,_or_Why_D’Gillette_Him_Off, Sheelah’s_Day,

• • • • All curlies removed from text, text edited. Sections added, copyedited, etc. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 03:43, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Russian_grassroots_women’s_organizations, Rosichonariefi’s_bent-toed_gecko, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Yan’an, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Qacha’s_Nek, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_N’Zérékoré, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Lu’an, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Ji’an, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Fada_N’Gourma, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Cerreto_Sannita-Telese-Sant’Agata_de’_Goti, Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Cava_de’_Tirreni, Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Xi’an, Rock_‘n’_Roll_San_Jose_Half_Marathon, Rock_‘n’_Roll_Mardi_Gras_Marathon, Rock_N’_Roll_Climber, Robyn_Dell’Unto, Roberts’_horseshoe_bat, Robert_d’Arista, Rivière_l’Estère, Riva_and_Padial’s_fan-footed_gecko, Reymer_&_Brothers_and_Bolan’s_Candies_Building, Reyes’s_Caribbean_gecko, Revue_d’histoire_du_fascisme, Revolutionary_People’s_Communication_Network, Rebuilding_America’s_Middle_Class:_A_Coalition_of_Community_Colleges, Raphael’s_Ephemeris, Ramon_d’Ortafà, Ramesseum_Magician’s_Box, Raissa_D’Souza,

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Protecting_Victoria’s_Vulnerable_Children_Inquiry, Protecting_States’_Rights_to_Promote_American_Energy_Security_Act, Progressive_Women’s_Political_Club, Prix_Patriote_de_l’année, Prince’s_Band_of_Carabiniers, Prince_William_Sound_Regional_Citizens’_Advisory_Council, Prime_Minister’s_Youth_Programme, Prime_Minister’s_Fee_Reimbursement_Scheme, Prime_Minister’s_Education_Assistance_Trust, President_Lincoln_and_Soldiers’_Home_National_Monument, Portrait_of_a_Young_Girl_at_the_End_of_the_60’s_in_Brussels, Portrait_de_l’éditeur_Eugène_Figuière, Porta_d’Europa, Police_and_Firemen’s_Insurance_Association, Polanyi’s_paradox, Platja_Pou_d’es_Lleo, Platja_Port_d’es_Torrent, Pigg’s_Peak_mine, Pierre_de_l’Estache, Peters’s_rock_gecko, People’s_Solidarity_for_Participatory_Democracy, People’s_Revolutionary_Movement_(South_Africa), People’s_Republic_of_Congo_Air_Force, People’s_Primary_Healthcare_Initiative_KP, People’s_Democratic_Council_of_Karbi_Longri, Peoples’_Resurgence_and_Justice_Alliance, Paul_di_Sant’Agnese, Passavant’s_ridge, Partnership_for_America’s_Health_Care_Future, Parsons_&_Whittemore_Overseas_Co._v._Societe_Generale_de_L’Industrie_du_Papier, Parfums_d’extrêmes, Paramonov’s_Mill, Palazzo_Vecchio_de’_Medici,_Pisa, Palazzo_Giulio_d’Este, Palazzo_della_Compagnia_dell’Arte_dei_Brentatori,_Bologna, Palazzo_Dall’Armi_Marescalchi,_Bologna, Palazzina_Marfisa_d’Este, Palais_d’Antoniadis,

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Nugent’s_Pass, Nothin’_Leica_Dane, Norwegian_Prison_and_Probation_Officers’_Union, No_One’s_Words, Nguyenvansang’s_snake, Newspaper_Proprietors’_Association_of_Nigeria, New_Directors’_Showcase, Ndiva_Women’s_Film_Festival, Nationalists’_Party, National_team_appearances_in_the_European_Wheelchair_Handball_Nations’_Tournament, National_Rural_and_Indigenous_Women’s_Association, National_Premier_Leagues_Women’s, National_Premier_Leagues_NSW_Women’s, National_Outstanding_Children’s_Literature_Award, National_Martyrs’_Memorial, National_Black_Women’s_Reproductive_Justice_Agenda, Nan_l’Étang, Nalla_Narasimha_Reddy_Education_Society’s_Group_of_Institutions, Najat_Maalla_M’jid,

FINISHED

Muséum_d'histoire_naturelle_d’Angers, Musée_québécois_de_l’agriculture_et_de_l’alimentation, Musée_d’art_naïf_de_Vicq_en_Île-de-France, Musée_d’art_et_d’histoire_(Fribourg), Musée_de_l’Œuvre_Notre-Dame, Musée_de_l’air_et_de_l’espace, Morelet’s_seedeater, Monty’s_Hotel,_Secunderabad, Monkman_&_Seagull’s_Genius_Adventures, Molchanov_Merchants’_Shop, Miye_D’Oench, Mister_Fred’s_Round_Pegs_and_Bass_Peeps, Missone’s_spider_gecko, Mississippi_State_Federation_of_Colored_Women’s_Clubs, Ministre_d’État_à_l’Aménagement_(Quebec), Military_Forces’_Commendation, Midnight's_Furies:_The_Deadly_Legacy_of_India’s_Partition, Michèle_Pirazzoli-t’Serstevens, Merchants_Zyryanov’s_manor_house, Merchant_Kosyakov’s_manor_house, Merchant_Chukanov’s_House,_Petropavl, McCurdy’s_Armor, Mazaev’s_mill,_Petropavl, Maximilian_Seyssel_d’Aix, Matter_of_O’Connor,_1988, Matilda’s_Law, Masters’_Cricket_Carnival, Masque_d’Or, Martyrs’_Monument,_Beirut, Martin_Op_’t_Land, Marion’s_Girl, Marie_Thérèse_Péroux_d’Abany, Marie_Louise_Madeleine_Victoire_d’Argenton, Marie-Charlotte_de_Balzac_d’Entragues, Maria_Diana’s_Chapel, Marcel-Ambroise_d’Aubenton, Marc_René,_Marquis_de_Voyer_de_Paulmy_d’Argenson, Mamilov`s, Mahabal’s_day_gecko,

FINISHED

Jumbunna_Coal_Mine_NL_v_Victorian_Coal_Miners’_Association, Juan-y-Pherick’s_Journey_and_Other_Poems, Joseph_M._Sanzari_Children’s_Hospital, Joseph_Count_Lucchesi_d’_Averna, João_Maria_D’Agostini, John_R._Oishei_Children’s_Hospital, Johann_Ludwig_von_L’Estocq, Jodhpur_Park_Girls’_High_School, Jewel’s_Leo_Bars, Jemmy_Joneson’s_Whurry, Jedlička’s_Institute, Jeanne_d’Arc_School,_Tehran, Jeanne_d’Arc_Debonheur, Jean_L’Escuyer, Jean-Baptiste_Boyer_d’Éguilles, Jatayu_Earth’s_Center, Jarujin’s_forest_gecko, Japan_in_Gulliver’s_Travels, Jamshedpur_Worker’s_College, Jamshedpur_Women’s_College, Jackson_Women’s_Health_Organization,

FINISHED

Ivinj_archeological_site_with_Saint_Martin’s_Church, Islamic_Republic_of_Iran’s_International_Holy_Quran_Competition, Isa_bek_Hajinski’s_House, Internet_Telephony_Services_Providers’_Association, International_Network_of_Women’s_Funds, International_Finno-Ugric_Students’_Conference, International_Association_of_Seismology_and_Physics_of_the_Earth’s_Interior, Inter_Pipeline’s_Heartland_Petrochemical_Complex, Institute_of_Women’s_Professional_Relations, India’s_‘Connect_Central_Asia’_Policy, Indian_Film_&_Television_Directors’_Association, India_Reloaded:_Inside_India’s_Resurgent_Consumer_Market, Independent_Students’_Association, Income_Tax_Service,_Group_‘B’, Il_était_une_fois_l’indépendance, Ignatius_D’Souza, Ich_kauf’_mir_lieber_einen_Tirolerhut,

FINISHED

Günther’s_blind_snake, Gunple:_Gunman’s_Proof, Gulliver’s_Valley, Guillaume_d’Abbes_de_Cabrebolles, Guido_Horn_d’Arturo, Guarantors’_Panel_on_the_Constitutionality_of_Rules, Grzelczyk_v_Centre_Public_d’Aide_Sociale_d’Ottignes-Louvain-la-Neuve, Groupe_des_écoles_nationales_d’ingénieurs, Groupe_de_Recherche_d’Art_Visuel, Gregangelo’s_Velocity_Circus/Arts_and_Entertainment, Green’s_Balloon_at_Newcastle, Greeff’s_giant_gecko, Grandpa’s_Ghost, Grand_Orient_of_Russia’s_Peoples, Governor’s_Punch_Bowl, Gothenburg_opera’s_dance_company, God’s_Doorkeeper:_St._André_of_Montreal, Gisèle_d’Ailly_van_Waterschoot_van_der_Gracht, Giovanni_Speranza_de’_Vajenti, Gilbert_d’Auffay, Gibson’s_Finest, Gestionnaire_d’Infrastructure_Unifié, Gesell’s_Maturational_Theory, Gerasimov_Merchant’s_Shop, Geordie_songwriters’_aliases, Generation_of_Chaos:_Pandora’s_Reflection, General_Federation_of_Women’s_Clubs_of_South_Carolina, Gaspare_dell’Acqua, Gabriel_de_L’Aubespine,

FINISHED

^[24]

In subsequent years, Heyerdahl was involved with many other expeditions and archaeological projects. He remained best known for his boat-building, and for his emphasis on cultural diffusionism..^[25]

Heyerdahl died on 18 April 2002 in Colla Micheri, Liguria, Italy, where he had gone to spend the Easter holidays with some of his closest family members. The Norwegian government gave him a state funeral in Oslo Cathedral on 26 April 2002. He is buried in the garden of the family home in Colla Micheri.^[25]

On the occasion of their honeymoon, Thor Heyerdahl and his first wife Liv determined to escape from civilization, and to "return to nature". They nominally had an academic mission, to research the spread of animal species between islands, but in reality they intended to "run away to the South Seas" and never return home. The couple arrived at Fatu Hiva in 1937, in the valley of Omo‘a. Finding that civilization, albeit on a vastly reduced scale, was still present there, they decided to cross over the island's mountainous interior to settle in one of the small, nearly abandoned, valleys on the eastern side of the island. There, they made their thatch-covered stilted home in the valley of Uia.

It was in this setting, surrounded by the ruins of the formerly glorious Marquesan civilization, that Heyerdahl first developed his theories regarding the possibility of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact between the pre-European Polynesians, and the peoples and cultures of South America.

During several exchanges with an elderly Marquesan man who lived in Uia with them, a former cannibal named Tei Tetua, Heyerdahl determined that, although prior to the arrival of Europeans, cats were not to be found in Polynesia, the Marquesans were nonetheless familiar with the creatures, and indeed, certain of the carved tiki figures seemed very much to represent felines:

To our surprise, the reliefs of two human figures with hands above their heads appeared, and between them, two large quadrupeds in profile, each with an eye, a mouth, erected ears, and a tail. Two quadrupeds!...A cat?...Felines yes, but not rats. (p.173)

To the present day, Andean peasants consider the hail-cat, "ccoa" - seen with hail running out of his eyes - a beast to be reckoned with. (Sullivan, "The Secret Of The Incas", p.139)

The ccoa was an important figure in the Andean cultures. In the Mayan language, toh is the name for the puma. In Polynesia, toa is the word for "brave". Cats are not native to Polynesia, but somehow feline icons are found in their primitive sculptures and figures. In Samoa, pusi is an English derivative that was adopted with the newly arrived cat. In Fatu-Hiva, the name for cat is "poto". The fact that cats seem to display some sense of keen intellect probably caused the natives to name the new arrivals poto after the Polynesian word for smart, poto.

The observation prompted Heyerdahl to ask Tei Tetua from whence his people had come, to which he replied "the east":

"From where?" I asked, and was curious to hear the old man's reply. "From Te Fiti [The East]", answered the old man and nodded toward that part of the horizon where the sun rose, the direction in which there was no other land except South America. (p.217)

Heyerdahl went on to explore this possibility a number of years later, as is detailed in his books Kon-Tiki and Aku-Aku: The Secret of Easter Island.

Initially, the Heyerdahls found life on Fatu Hiva to be idyllic, what with the abundance of fruit trees and readily available unpolluted river water. The charm soon wore off, however, as they had to face the reality of elephantiasis-bearing mosquitos, as well as other unfamiliar tropical diseases. Eventually, also, Thor and Liv found it impossible to live among the local people and ended up sheltering in a cave, anxious to get home.

The book begins with Heyerdahl's optimistic idea that paradise could still be found. By the end of the book, Heyerdahl bitterly concludes:

There is nothing for modern man to return to. Our wonderful time in the wilderness had given us a taste of what man had abandoned and what mankind was still trying to get even further away from. ... Progress today can be defined as man's ability to complicate simplicity. ... Nothing in all the procedure that modern man, helped by all his modern middlemen, goes through before he earns money to buy a fish or a potato will ever be as simple as pulling it out of the water or soil. Without the farmer and the fisherman, modern society would collapse, with all its shops and pipes and wires. The farmers and the fishermen represent the nobility of modern society; they share their crumbs with the rest of us, who run about with papers and screwdrivers attempting to build a better world without a blueprint.

Smithsonian How the Voyage of the Kon-Tiki Misled the World About Navigating the Pacific

^[26]

info to add to Thor Heyerdal page

How in the heck do I do that? Thank you.  D7keyes (talk) 15:27, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

You don't. Bob Hayes is much better known as a football player than a politician. John from Idegon (talk) 18:21, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@John from Idegon:, you probably should reevaluate your reply to @D7keyes:.

Bob Hayes might be better known as a football player than a politician; however, D7keyes' interest is in Bob Keyes. Bob Keyes is undoubtedly better known as a politician, or actually anything else, as his NFL career was a single season with the Oakland Raiders and the San Francisco 49ers in 1960 and his stats is a single rush for seven yards.

Osomite ^hablemos 19:48, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

If a ping is made in Wikipedia did anyone receive it? Did I "ping" correctly in my previous edit?

I have seen another "ping" method that undoubtedly works so I ping again to make sure of a connection.

So testing, testing, testing. . .pinging @John from Idegon and pinging @D7keyes. Could you let me know if you received the original "ping"?

Sorry for the "pinging" confusion. . .so many ways to do things, so many errors to make.

Osomite ^hablemos 20:00, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Osomite, good catch. Thanks. Your pings work, but I'm a volunteer just like you. Help on Wikipedia isn't real time. We'd have to have paid staff for that and we don't (and won't). D7keyes, I've left you a message on your talk page. You'll need to deal with that prior to editing Mr. Keyes's biography. BTW, per WP:BLP, I've removed everything from the article that isn't sourced. BLP requires inline citations for every fact. John from Idegon (talk) 21:03, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@John from Idegon: Reading WP:BLPRS, "all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation; material not meeting this standard may be removed." I don't see anything that says that "BLP requires inline citations for every fact" as you have stated. Would you please provide a link to the WP page that supports your assertion? Thanks! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 21:50, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, if an editor removes unsourced content, then it has been challenged. Therefore, adding a reliable source verifying that content is mandatory when adding it back. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:30, 12 September 2020 (UTC)(UTC)

@Cullen328: What you have said about "challenged" unsourced content is fair and reasonable, and I have no quarrel with your statement, nor did I challenge User:John from Idegon's "challenge". (The challenge seems to be "by the book, per WP".) My objection (or lack of understanding?), as I stated, relates to the declaration that: "BLP requires inline citations for every fact". AFAIK, this is not true. That is why I asked for a supporting link. Frankly, sports and politics are at the bottom of the rung in terms of my editing interests. However, I do wish to see our BLP policies represented accurately, esp here at the Teahouse. If I have not read BLP properly, I am entirely open to correction, which is why I asked for a link. I am not arguing in support of this particular article, nor about the edits that User:John from Idegon has made, but only about their declaration of WP BLP policy. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 01:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

It's about politics. There are few non contentious facts concerning politics. There's also no reason to give anyone any advice regarding references that states otherwise. If it's about a person, reference it. All contentious means is someone disagrees. Do you honestly think anything can be asserted about a politician that wouldn't be contentious? Not even all the extraordinary claims about his athletics career were sourced. As a matter of fact, unless the claim of All American that I removed from the article verifies, I don't see anything that shows notability. All SNGs do is suggest a level of achievement that should generate enough coverage to meet GNG. they're not automatic. John from Idegon (talk) 23:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@John from Idegon:Please, go back and read my edit. In answer to your question "Do you honestly think anything can be asserted about a politician that wouldn't be contentious?" no, of course I do not! My edit was made to question the declaration that "BLP requires inline citations for every fact", and that was the only subject I addressed in my edit! And that was my only interest in the topic. I did not state a disagreement with you in any other way! Yes, as a WikiGnome, I have made minor corrections to sports or political articles, from time to time, but they are certainly not my personal area of interest. But I do think it is important to state our BLP policies correctly, per WP:BLP. Many of us read the Teahouse, in order to learn. Stating our policies correctly is important. So, please, if I have misunderstood the basic policy, and there is a "page" I have failed to find, then do me the kindness of directing me to it. I only asked about policy, I did not voice nor do I have any disagreement with your edits to the article. I am sorry that both you and @Cullen328: thought that I was disagreeing with edits to the article. Sincerely, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:47, 13 September 2020 (UTC)