Wikipedia:Requested moves: Difference between revisions

Administrator instructions

This page has an administrative backlog that requires the attention of willing administrators. Please replace this notice with {{no admin backlog}} when the backlog is cleared.

Requested moves is a process for requesting the retitling (moving) of an article, template, or project page on Wikipedia. For retitling files, categories and other items, see When not to use this page.

Please read the article titling policy and the guideline regarding primary topics before moving a page or requesting a page move.

Any autoconfirmed user can use the Move function to perform most moves (see Help:How to move a page). If you have no reason to expect a dispute concerning a move, be bold and move the page. However, it may not always be possible or desirable to do this:

• Technical reasons may prevent a move; for example, a page may already exist at the target title and require deletion, or the page may be protected from moves. See: § Requesting technical moves.
• Requests to revert recent, undiscussed, controversial moves may be made at WP:RM/TR. If the new name has not become the stable title, the undiscussed move will be reverted. If the new name has become the stable title, a requested move will be needed to determine the article's proper location.
• A title may be disputed, and discussion may be necessary to reach consensus: see § Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves. The requested moves process is not mandatory, and sometimes an informal discussion at the article's talk page can help reach consensus.
• A page should not be moved and a new move discussion should not be opened when there is already an open move request on a talk page. Instead, please participate in the open discussion.
• Unregistered and new (not yet autoconfirmed) users are unable to move pages.

Requests are generally processed after seven days. If consensus to move the page is reached at or after this time, a reviewer will carry out the request. If there is a consensus not to move the page, the request will be closed as "not moved". When consensus remains unclear, the request may be relisted to allow more time for consensus to develop, or the discussion may be closed as "no consensus". See Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions for more details on the process.

Wikipedia:Move review can be used to contest the outcome of a move request as long as all steps are followed. If a discussion on the closer's talk page does not resolve an issue, then a move review will evaluate the close of the move discussion to determine whether or not the contested close was reasonable and consistent with the spirit and intent of common practice, policies, and guidelines.

Separate processes exist for moving certain types of pages, and for changes other than page moves:

• Making an uncontroversial move – if you can, be bold and do it yourself! If you can't, see § Requesting technical moves.
• Renaming a category – propose the move at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion.
• Renaming a stub template – propose the move at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion.
• Renaming an image or other file – see Wikipedia:Moving a page § Moving a file page.
• Moves from draft namespace or user space to article space – Unconfirmed users: add {{subst:submit}} to the top of the article. See Wikipedia:Articles for creation. Confirmed users: Move the page yourself.
• Merging two articles – make a request at Wikipedia:Proposed mergers, or be bold and do it yourself.
• Splitting an article – make a request at Wikipedia:Proposed article splits, or be bold and do it yourself.
• Requesting that page histories be merged – list them at Wikipedia:Requests for history merge.
• Contesting a move request close – use the Wikipedia:Move review process.

Autoconfirmed editors may move a page without discussion if all of the following apply:

• No article exists at the new target title;
• There has been no previous discussion about the title of the page that expressed any objection to a new title; and
• It seems unlikely that anyone would reasonably disagree with the move.

If you disagree with a prior bold move, and the new title has not been in place for a long time, you may revert the move yourself. If you cannot revert the move for technical reasons, then you may request a technical move.

Move wars are disruptive, so if you make a bold move and it is reverted, do not make the move again. Instead, follow the procedures laid out in § Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves.

Only list proposals here that are clearly uncontroversial but require administrator help to complete (for example, spelling and capitalization fixes). Do not list a proposed page move in this section if there is any possibility that it could be opposed by anyone. Please list new requests at the bottom of the list in this section and use {{subst:RMassist|Old page name|Requested name|Reason for move}} rather than copying previous entries. The template will automatically include your signature. No edits to the article's talk page are required.

If you object to a proposal listed here, please re-list it in the #Incomplete and contested proposals section below.

• William Bradbury (horticulturist) → William Bradbery — The apparent correct name (see User talk:Van helsing#William Bradbery, watercress pioneer), revert previous mistaken move by myself. Can’t do it myself, though destination article has only one edit — Van helsing (talk) 08:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With the exception of a brief description of the problem or objection to the move request, please do not discuss move requests here. If you support an incomplete or contested move request, please consider following the instructions above to create a full move request, and move the discussion to the "Other Proposals" section below. Requests that remain incomplete after five days will be removed.

• User:Protonk/Draft of mathematical economics → Mathematical economics —(Discuss)— History merge from userspace draft. --Protonk (talk) 07:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC) Protonk (talk) 07:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Ultra Violet (Isabelle Collin Dufresne) → Ultra Violet — Current name is completely untenable as a search term. Reserving Ultra Violet as a redirect to Ultraviolet is unnecessary. — Otto4711 (talk) 19:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC) Otto4711 (talk) 19:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • To most people, Ultra Violet means ultraviolet. The French artist Isabelle Collin Dufresne alias Ultra Violet is adequately linked to from Ultraviolet (disambiguation). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also object to this uncontroversial rename, since several things are "Ultra Violet" 70.51.9.124 (talk) 04:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• So move the artist Ultra Violet to the appropriate namespace and put a dab note on the article. Otto4711 (talk) 08:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• WAYN (website) → WAYN - this used to be under this link for few years and someone moved it to create space with disambig, which I just moved to WAYN (disambiguation). Now I would like to move the old page to its previous location... 08:44, 11 September 2008 User:Pkuczynski
  • I have moved WAYN (disambiguation) back to WAYN. Is the web site is very dominant to the radio station? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Euro banknotes → Euro banknote - Aren't objects supposed to be in singular form? Tamajared (talk) 19:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Debatable: There is more than one type of Euro banknote. Perhaps this is a group of things, rather than a class of things (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals)). C.f. BanknoteS of the Australian dollar... 21:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Oppose - there are seven denominations, and this article is about all of them. -- Arwel Parry _(talk) 23:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Band's official use of capitalisation (sorry - don't know how to start a page title with lowercase myself — Pince Nez (talk) 14:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Deus (band) → dEUS (band) —
  • Deus discography → DEUS discography

    • Inappropriate moves, per WP:NC and WP:CAPS. At least, they should be discussed first. (Pince Nez: see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Lower case first letter). 87.112.85.21 (talk) 18:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • WP:MOSTM. (Someone has already moved Deus (band) to dEUS (band).) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Se Ri Pak → Pak Se Ri — korean names on Wikipedia are family name first. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) — 70.20.93.233 (talk) 01:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hee-Won Han → Han Hee-Won
  • SK Ho → Hur Suk-ho
  • Jeong Jang → Jang Jeong
  • Eun-Hee Ji → Ji Eun-Hee
  • Soo-Yun Kang → Kang Soo-Yun
  • Birdie Kim → Kim Birdie
  • Joo Mi Kim → Kim Joo Mi
  • Mi Hyun Kim → Kim Mi Hyun
  • Young Kim →Kim Young
  • Jee Young Lee →Lee Jee Young
  • Meena Lee→ Lee Meena
  • Seon Hwa Lee→ Lee Seon Hwa
  • Hee Jung Park→ Park Hee Jung
  • Inbee Park→ Park Inbee
  • Ji-Yai Shin→ Shin Ji-Yai
  • Sung Ah Yim → Yim Sung Ah
  • Cha Seung Baek → Baek Cha Seung
  • Jin Ho Cho → Cho Jin Ho
  • Hee-seop Choi → Choi Hee-seop
  • Byung-Hyun Kim → Kim Byung-Hyun
  • Chan Ho Park →Park Chan Ho
  • Shin-Soo Choo → Choo Shin-Soo
  • Sun-Woo Kim →Kim Sun-Woo
  • Man Soo Lee→ Lee Man Soo
  • Sang-Hoon Lee →Lee Sang-Hoon
  • Jae Kuk Ryu →Ryu Jae Kuk
  • Jae Weong Seo → Seo Jae Weong
  • In Jin Chi → Chi In Jin
  • Duk Koo Kim → Kim Duk Koo
  • Sung-Kil Moon → Moon Sung-Kil
  • Min-Kyu Kim →Kim Min-Kyu
  • Kyongwon Ahn → Ahn Kyongwon
  • Kwang Jo Choi → Choi Kwang Jo
  • Yong Chin Pak → Pak Yong Chin
  • Chong Chul Rhee → Rhee Chong Chul
    • Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) says "Unless the subject is known to prefer otherwise, family name should be written first". As the requester is a anonymous IP address, better get this discussed some first? (List of his contributions) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose Se Ri Pak, LPGA Golfer is commonly known as this in the English speaking world 70.55.89.214 (talk) 10:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Peter Stastny → Peter Šťastný — Previously discussed and consensus reached, user moved page against all consensus and now I can't move it back... — Krm500 (talk) 09:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Certainly not uncontroversial; nor do I see a previous consensus for diacritics. The discussion is here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose that's certainly not what's on his TOPPS Hockey Card, or his The Hockey News profile. 70.51.9.124 (talk) 05:59, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please use the correct template: see the instructions above. Do not attempt to copy and paste formatting from another listing.

Purge the cache to refresh this page

• David G. Ludwig murders → David G. Ludwig —(Discuss)— per discussion at WP:CRIME --DH85868993 (talk) 08:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Akiko Yosano (poet) → Akiko Yosano — Disambiguation not needed, seems to be only one person with this name. — Malkinann (talk) 05:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• rearviewmirror: Greatest Hits 1991–2003 → Rearviewmirror: Greatest Hits 1991–2003 —(Discuss)— The only sources that I can find that spell "rearviewmirror" in lowercase are the album cover and the band's official website. All other sources capitalize "Rearviewmirror." It appears to me that the band is trying to enforce a stylistic spelling of "rearviewmirror," but since no other source cares to spell it lowercase there isn't a good reason Wikipedia should spell it lowercase either. --Xnux the Echidna 18:47, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Manchester United TV → MUTV —(Discuss)— The Manchester United television channel has never been known as "Manchester United TV". Its initials may stand for "Manchester United Television", but "Manchester United TV" is not the name of the channel. I also contend that the most common usage of MUTV refers to this television channel, as the other two MUTVs on Wikipedia are university television channels, which have a very narrow spectrum of use. If you search Google for "MUTV -wikipedia" (without quotes), of the first twenty hits, only one refers to Marquette University Television, and it is not until the third page that any hits for Missouri University Television show up. Furthermore, both of those university television channels are known by their longer names, whereas MUTV (the Manchester United one) is only known by one name. Therefore, I suggest that Manchester United TV be moved to MUTV and that MUTV be moved to MUTV (disambiguation). --– PeeJay 16:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• P.U.P. Maragondon Extension → Polytechnic University of the Philippines, Maragondon —(Discuss)— The page was then cut and pasted rather than moved, and to have coherence with other subcategories of Polytechnic University of the Philippines, thus dropping those pages that were redirected in their acronyms such as this. --Axxand (talk) 11:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• P.U.P. Mulanay Extension → Polytechnic University of the Philippines, Mulanay —(Discuss)— The page was then cut and pasted rather than moved, and to have coherence with other subcategories of Polytechnic University of the Philippines, thus dropping those pages that were redirected in their acronyms such as this. --Axxand (talk) 11:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• P.U.P. San Pedro Extension → Polytechnic University of the Philippines, San Pedro —(Discuss)— The page was then cut and pasted rather than moved, and to have coherence with other subcategories of Polytechnic University of the Philippines, thus dropping those pages that were redirected in their acronyms such as this. --Axxand (talk) 11:26, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• P.U.P. Santa Rosa Extension → Polytechnic University of the Philippines, Santa Rosa —(Discuss)— The page was then cut and pasted rather than moved, and to have coherence with other subcategories of Polytechnic University of the Philippines, thus dropping those pages that were redirected in their acronyms such as this. --Axxand (talk) 11:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) → ? —(Discuss)— Inaccurate title. —Philosopher ^{Let us reason together.} 08:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Berlin Circle (philosophy) → Berlin Circle —(Discuss)— The former traffic circle in New Jersey hardly rivals a major 20th-century circle of philosophers. --Srnec (talk) 01:07, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Set You Free (N-Trance song) → Set You Free (Discuss) - This article is the most notable Set You Free and should be moved to that page because it redirects to "Set You Free (disambiguation)"

• Mike Levine → Michael Levine —(Discuss)— Move disambiguation page Mike Levine to Michael Levine, which currently redirects to Mike. More Michaels than Mikes, better to have full name as dab. --Tassedethe (talk) 10:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Enhanced Data Rates for GSM Evolution → EDGE —(Discuss)— Shorter, common usage name --Sladen (talk) 10:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC); The backronym used is somewhat long-winded (and has previously been redefined). The article on GSM (of which EDGE is a bolt on extension/update) is directly at GSM. The only other contender for all caps 'EDGE is the EDGE of Existance Programme, which has 'EDGE' within its full title already. —Sladen (talk) 10:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Little Manhattan (film) → Little Manhattan —(Discuss)— No need for disambiguation as there is no other article with this title. Article was originally at proposed title, which now just redirects to current title. Can't move myself due to edit history on redirect page. --Station1 (talk) 07:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• inflatable armbands → water wings —(Discuss)— According to Google, the term "water wings" is used far more often than "inflatable armbands" to refer to the thingies people wear on their arms to float in water. --JIP | Talk 06:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Low alloy steel → Alloy steel —(Discuss)— Alloy steel is the common name, whereas low alloy steel is the technical name. --Wizard191 (talk) 01:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Dušan Đurić → Dusan Djuric —(Discuss)— Swedish spelling for a Swedish national born in Sweden. As a Swede I've never seen his name with Serbian spelling in either Swedish or English media. No sources has been shown supporting the page move from the Swedish spelling to Serbian; indeed the only source provided in the article uses the Swedish spelling --Sebisthlm (talk) 19:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Pease International Tradeport → Portsmouth International Airport at Pease —(Discuss)— This is an article about an airport for which FAA records and the airport's web site (see links in article) both give the correct name as Portsmouth International Airport at Pease. The article is not about the Pease International Tradeport, which is the name for the surrounding office/industrial park. --Zyxw (talk) 11:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Dakshina Gangotri → Dakshin Gangotri —(Discuss)— commonly used spelling. Does not have to be phonetically exact --=Nichalp «Talk»= 09:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Sveta Gera → Trdinov vrh —(Discuss)— Talk:Sveta Gera --AndrejJ (talk) 09:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Patria affair → Patria case —(Discuss)— The phrase "Patria affair" is excessively sensionalistic and not the most common naming in English --Eleassar ^{my talk} 17:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• War Memorial Park, Coventry → War Memorial Park — (Discuss) — "War Memorial Park, Coventry" is clearly the primary page. The disambiguation page is now at "War Memorial Park (disambiguation)" — Snowman (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Seekers Quest Begins → Seekers: The Quest Begins —(Discuss)— Better title --Leo Laursen – ✍ ⌘ 09:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Minor characters in 24 → Recurring and minor characters in 24 —(Discuss)— Completing move request --Andrewa (talk) 01:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• (Discuss)— Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (aircraft) --Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 19:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC) - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 19:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Chance-Vought F4U survivors → F4U Corsair survivors
  • Boeing B-52 survivors → B-52 Stratofortress survivors
  • Boeing B-47 survivors → B-47 Stratojet survivors
  • Boeing B-29 survivors → B-29 Superfortress survivors
  • Boeing B-17 survivors → B-17 Flying Fortress survivors
  • Consolidated B-24 survivors → B-24 Liberator survivors
  • Douglas A-20 survivors → A-20 Havoc survivors
  • Douglas A-26 survivors → A-26 Invader survivors
  • Lockheed P-38 survivors → P-38 Lightning survivors
  • North American B-25 survivors → B-25 Mitchell survivors
  • Republic P-47 survivors → P-47 Thunderbolt survivors

• Clean coal technology → Clean coal —(Discuss)— Better describes the article. --- Eldereft (cont.) 16:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Environmental issues with biodiesel → Environmental issues with biofuels —(Discuss)— No reason given by nominator. ---- Alan Liefting (talk) - 08:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Northern Areas → Federally Administered Northern Areas —(Discuss)— In line with naming conventions applied to other Pakistani provinces, e.g. North-West Frontier Province (and equally Federally Administered Tribal Areas), I propose that this article's title should be Federally Administered Northern Areas (presently a redirect to Northern Areas). Apart from the reason already provided (i.e. consistency), I would add one more: it would make the generally applied abbreviation FANA more easily understood. --meco (talk) 10:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Seattle, Washington → Seattle —(Discuss)— Disambiguation is unnecessary; "Seattle" most often refers to the city. Moving would prevent everyone who types in "Seattle" from being greeted with "Redirected from...". Moving would also follow the lead of other articles about large cities such as Chicago, New York City, Oslo, and Amsterdam. --—Remember the dot ^(talk) 05:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Siamese fighting fish → Betta splendens —(Discuss)— The far more common name for these fish is simply "Betta". There are no foods marketed towards "fighting fish" or "rumble fish", or even "betta fish". Betta is already taken, so this article should be located at Betta splendens, not at a next-runner-up common name. I had possibly encountered the name "Siamese fighting fish" when I was a child, but not since, until I came across this article. It's just silly. A Google search for Siamese fighting fish yields 184,000, but Betta splendens yields 341,000, implying that even the scientific name is more common than this "common name". --~ JohnnyMrNinja 04:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Irish florin coin → Florin (Irish coin) —(Discuss)— Consistency with other florins and removal of the form "florin coin", which is redundant and not commonly used. Simply "florin" is best. "Irish florin" would also be an improvement. --Srnec (talk) 04:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move dated sections here after five days have passed (October 31 or older).

• Amputee fetishism → Acrotomophilia —(Discuss)— The name is oxymoronic slang, and contradicts the currently existing name of the Apotemnophilia article. --Redblueball (talk) 17:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC) Redblueball (talk) 17:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Free Area of the Republic of China → Taiwan Area —(Discuss)— The current article name is a politically POV term used by independence groups of Taiwan. The article interwikis to 타이완 지구, 台灣地區, and 臺灣地區, which mean "Taiwan region" in Korean, Cantonese, and Chinese respectively. The article is linked-in by number of articles as if it is an article about Taiwan (for example Ministry of Education (Republic of China), Ministry of Justice Investigation Bureau). The current name is POV because one can easily find a term describing the opposing points of view (i.e. liberate Taiwan, unliberated province of China). The proposed name "Taiwan Area" comes from the article itself, which states 'In ordinary legislation, the term "Taiwan Area" is usually used'. "Taiwan Area" is a politically neutral term because it only mentions geography and it agrees with the current interwikis. --Voidvector (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Alexander Dennis Pointer → Plaxton Pointer —(Discuss)— Vehicle was sold under several different marques during its lifetime, but Plaxton Pointer is the most commonly used name by a significant margin (the Google test suggests a factor of 20), so the move would be in accordance with WP:COMMONNAME. --Quackdave (talk) 14:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Basque Country (historical territory) → Euskal Herria —(Discuss)— The current title's parenthesis is misleading and the title without parenthesis is taken (and ambiguous). This article is/should be about a concept, not a "historical territory", see the Spanish Wiki for a similar solution. This proposal stems from discussions about problems in the article's content and "info"box over the last few days. It might be useful for those interested in the move request to read those debate threads first. --Srnec (talk) 18:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Battle of Hurtgen Forest → Battle of Hürtgen Forest —(Discuss)— The present name violates Wikipedia style for treatment of foreign words with diacritics --PKKloeppel (talk) 13:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Willem II Tilburg → Willem II (football club) —(Discuss)— The name of the town, Tilburg, is only in the name of the company behind the club. The club itself is called Willem II, it is registered with the relevant associations as Willem II and it is known by the public as Willem II. See for instance the club website Willem-II.nl, the club information on the official Eredivisie website, the club information on the UEFA website and the club information on the Voetbal International website. --Aecis·(away) ^talk 12:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Chocolate-coated marshmallow treats → Chocolate Tea Cakes —(Discuss)— I am proposing that we change the name of 'Chocolate-coated marshmallow treats' to 'Chocolate Teacakes. The name is abit daft and to biased towards an American spelling. When I googled Chocolate Tea cakes, I got 506,000 results. But when I googled Chocolate-coated marshmallow treats, I only got 2,320 results. So would it not make sense to rename it 'Chocolate Tea Cakes'? Its much more relevant. --Teacake Martyr (talk) 14:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Decline of the Roman Empire → Fall of the Roman Empire —(Discuss)— Per WP:Name, this is the most common name. Already agreed on by consensus in talk page discussion. --Carl.bunderson (talk) 07:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Diocletianic Persecution → Great Persecution —(Discuss)— Nowhere (outside Wikipedia) is the term "Diocletianic Persecution" in wide use. Most reliable sources use the term "Great Persecution" to define the matter for study. Not all of Diocletian's persecutions are covered by the subject matter of the "Great Persecution" as traditionally defined. Not all persecutions covered by the subject matter of the "Great Persecution" as traditionally defined are strictly 'Diocletianic'. --Geuiwogbil (Talk) 16:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Twin Tower (disambiguation) → Twin Towers —(Discuss)— Moving disambiguation page back to main title per WP:DAB. --Trystan (talk) 06:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Pilsen → Plzeň —(Discuss)— Current, more common name of this Czech city, "Pilsen" has fallen in disuse since the Germans left the city after World War II. --Húsönd 17:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]