Talk:Joey Merlino

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070929122158/http://www.philly.com/dailynews/features/20070405_National_Geographic_takes_on_the_Philly_mob.html to http://www.philly.com/dailynews/features/20070405_National_Geographic_takes_on_the_Philly_mob.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110527001549/http://www.myfoxphilly.com:80/dpp/news/local_news/who%27s-the-new-philadelphia-mob-boss-052311 to http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/who%27s-the-new-philadelphia-mob-boss-052311

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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Seattle Times article discussing an alleged conspiracy theory that Merlino was involved in fixing ballots in favor of Joe Biden in Philadelphia in the 2020 United States Presidential Election. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 20:23, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that while Seattle Times is a reliable source, this should be referenced in several RS's so as to not possibly violate the Biography of Living Person's policy. I also note that Merlino, through his attorney, denies the allegations. 47.137.178.203 (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No doubt it is a reliable source, just a question of whether to include it as it may be WP:UNDUE. Let's see if we get any other input. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 20:28, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a no brainer. Media coverage around this has been substantial and worldwide as a result of the wider attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election. Has been directly referenced by 2 individuals on Trump's personal legal team - one being Rudy Giuliani - the man directing Trump's efforts to stay in office. There is simply no conceivable way this doesnt warrant a passing mention. Covered by BBC, Independent, Fox News, NY Daily News, Philly Voice, Washington Post, Daily Beast, Seattle Times, The Australian. Among others. VideoGamePlaya (talk) 22:07, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can you post some links to those news articles so we can look at them? --Ted87 (talk) 06:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/biden-fake-news-mob-boss-philadelphia-votes-b1759433.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-55005815?rand=826

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mob-boss-denies-philadelphia-election-joe-biden-mans-man

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumpworlds-insane-new-claim-mafia-rigged-the-vote-for-joe-biden

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/trumps-lawyer-puts-philadelphia-mobster-skinny-joey-merlino-at-center-of-election-conspiracy/

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-trump-election-conspiracy-philadelphia-mobster-20201117-wu7v2vwq65el5cflrscxjnoari-story.html

https://www.phillyvoice.com/joey-merlino-philadelphia-mob-trump-biden-election-fraud-lawsuits-2020/

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/us-2020-election-its-like-a-horror-movie-that-never-ends/news-story/804123089557a41286b245d8680dde34

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rudy-giuliani-repeats-story-from-fake-news-site-that-mafia-rigged-election-for-biden/ar-BB1bb4lB

https://news.yahoo.com/president-trump-lawyer-puts-philadelphia-153000469.html

https://local12.com/news/nation-world/debunked-theory-used-to-claim-president-trump-won-410-electoral-votes-joe-biden-georgia-ballots-election-philadelphia-joseph-skinny-joey-merlino-detroit-astrazeneca-vaccine-development

Also subject to a fact check on https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/skinny-joey-merlino-biden/ and https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/18/facebook-posts/joe-biden-did-not-hire-mob-fabricate-ballots-phila/ VideoGamePlaya (talk) 07:39, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter how many sources you can find about the isolated issue, because Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS and I still find this WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION WP:UNDUE to include. If you want to argue this further, you can open a WP:RfC. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:05, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Watch your attitude because I've done nothing wrong here, my friend. I'm sorry I had to badger you into even being bothered to make that reply, but I was only wanting the same respect I've shown you. To remove someone's work, ask them to go to the talk page and then ignore it is the epitome of arrogance and highlights to me your contempt for new editors here. Admittedly I don't know the rules here as well as you, but I know of one or two you might want to revisit. Wikipedia:Etiquette "being dogmatic or uncommunicative evokes the same behavior in others and gets you embroiled in an edit war." "Do not use jargon that others might not understand. Use acronyms carefully and clarify if there is the possibility of any doubt." Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers.

My counter-argument was going to rest on Wikipedia:Fringe theories which writes "For a fringe view to be discussed in an article about a mainstream idea, independent reliable sources must discuss the relationship of the two as a serious and substantial matter." " the topic must receive significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." "Even demonstrably incorrect assertions and fringe theories [...] can merit inclusion in an encyclopedia—as notable ideas in the public eye" and "The notability of a fringe theory must be judged by statements from verifiable and reliable sources, not the proclamations of its adherents." For example the BBC write "According to a BBC analysis, the censorship story was shared tens of thousands of times on Facebook [...] The article about Skinny Joey was shared more than 17,000 times on Facebook to a potential audience of more than three million people, according to figures from social media analysis tool CrowdTangle."

As it happens, I've read WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION which you kindly provided, and I agree with you, as the guideline stands there are problems that would justify inclusion of this allegation. Nonetheless, I still consider my argument to have merit, and worthy of a lot more thought than the snide you've shown. However, I won't be taking it any further as, frankly, that would involve having to deal more with your good self. And as you've radiated nothing but arrogance and contempt for me in your behaviour, probably putting me off this website forever, I think I can do without that. Enjoy your day. VideoGamePlaya (talk) 01:35, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

VideoGamePlaya, I don't think I've given you any attitude. The links you provided were to Ted87, not me. There was no additional discussion by other editors to reach a WP:CONSENSUS on this matter. I've given you another avenue to take the matter, if you so choose. I'm also not saying that all fringe theories don't belong, as you've stated some do. With the links you provided, there's no doubt this case was significantly covered, but all the coverage was within a very short period of time, which may be more on the NOTNEWS side of things. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 02:25, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ted87 intervened here entirely of his own volition, and I was happy to provide the links he asked for. It was you, not Ted, however, who removed my initial edit - which of course is absolutely fine - provided you properly explain yourself and demonstrate the same respect that you yourself expect to recieve. Apart from leaving me with some shorthand wikipedia jargon (which is entirely gibberish to me) and then asking I go to the talk page (which I happily did), you've been entirely uncommunicative. There are guidelines against this. Guidelines created for the benefit of relatively new users like myself. I wasn't being aggressive asking you to respond here - on the contrary I believe I was being generous giving you a week to fully explain yourself.

And I'm sorry, I may be wrong, but I detected some hostility when I (finally) got your reply. "It doesn't matter how many sources you can find" isn't exactly a great opener. It stinks actually. However, I finally get some civility out of you "With the links you provided, there's no doubt this case was significantly covered, but all the coverage was within a very short period of time, which may be more on the NOTNEWS side of things." That is the sort of respectful response I've been hoping for. If you'd been this courteous from the start this could've been avoided. VideoGamePlaya (talk) 03:00, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if it came off that way, and I just want to see I really appreciate your cooperation here because there are so many new users here who do not respect WP:BRD, and you have done that perfectly. The only reason I didn't respond to your first comment was because I had already made my stance clear from my comment from November, and wanted to wait to see if any other editor had a response. But again, there is currently no CONSENSUS to add the text after several weeks, so I don't think there will be any more attention here without going the other avenue I pointed to, but I seriously think you'll get more of the same if other experienced editors are brought here. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 03:06, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you're right actually in fairness to you. Might take a while to wrap my head around the jargon, but I'm sure I'll get there one day. Appreciate your maturity in the face of my little rant as well. Have a good day. VideoGamePlaya (talk) 03:14, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]