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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. After three weeks, there was no consensus on whether to keep or delete the page. There seems to be a consensus to rename the article to Islamic Law and Constitution, which I went ahead and did. This can be reverted without an AfD if there's consensus on the Talk page to do so. Owen× ☎ 13:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan

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Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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No sources that discuss this book, merely listings. This incomplete hit on Google Books says... something about the book but I can't tell if it's any longer than a sentence. No sigcov. The past AfD was closed as keep because standards were different in 2006, the author being notable does not help. Redirect to Abul A'la Maududi? The one hiccup is this was initially published not in English, but I cannot figure out what title, so I could not search to see if there were sources in its native language. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Islam, and Pakistan. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Abul A'la Maududi unless notability can be demonstrated with Urdu sources. Interestingly the Urdu wikipedia article on Maududi doesnt list this work in the list of works by him, so I wonder if it's an english-language editorial collection of translated essays and articles rather than a single work by him. Mccapra (talk) 13:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Islamic Law and Constitution, rewrite and keep. This book has been translated into English from a language not written in Roman script, so a search in English alone will not suffice for BEFORE. We need to know how to transliterate the title into the original script before we can dispute its notability. This seems to be a reprint of part of, and chapter 2 ("The Islamic Law: Its Introduction in Pakistan") of, a book called [The] Islamic Law and Constitution [1]. This book (see another edition, which may or may not have the chapter: [2]) seems to have a lot of citations (80+ in GScholar), and numerous editions, reprints and translations, and reviews in English [3] and other commentary in English (see eg Google Books). His best known book: [4]. There is also a section "Some Opinions about the First Edition" in a section "Islamic Law and Constitution" [5] which quotes book reviews (1) from J.N.D. Anderson in "International Affairs", London (which is here) (2) from "The Dawn", Karachi (3) from "The Hindustan Times", Dehli and (4) from "The Hindu", Madras. Seems to satisfy TBK, GNG and criteria 1 and (judging from the article on the author) criteria 5 of NBOOK. [We should also have an article on the bibliography of islamic law: see [6] and numerous periodical articles.] James500 (talk) 04:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @James500 This is not a reprint - you can find copies of both books online, they have a completely different table of contents and contents. It is not the one chapter of that book, it is a full other book with entirely different contents. I oppose any move because from looking at it it appears to be an entirely different book.
    Per Mccapra above I think this is just a translated collection of individual essays with no direct Urdu equivalent. It has nothing to do with the other book. If someone wants to write an article on that book then they can but this is not the same thing. This one has 0 sources. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:20, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As far as I can see, at least some of the text of the 1960 English translation of "Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan" appears to be taken verbatim from chapter 2 of the 1955 English translation of "Islamic Law and Constitution". To me, the 1960 book looks like a rehash of part of the 1955 book. There are bibliographic sources that say that the books "Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan" and a number of other apparently derivative books (such as "Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State" and "First Principles of the Islamic State") are "A Part of Islamic Law and Constitution": [7]. James500 (talk) 07:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @James500 There are plenty of edited collections that have content similarities with one another, with single chapters/essays being duplicated. Just because a work of one author is included in two collections does not make them the same collection. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:43, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 06:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there is still no consensus. Can you please provide a link to any previous AFDs on this article subject?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment for context here is the past AfD. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to make this easy, here is the previous AFD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan (book). Liz Read! Talk! 04:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move cum Keep: I support the move to Islamic Law and Constitution, rewrite and keep, as suggested by @James500. The book “Islamic Law and Constitution” consists of two parts, and the book “Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan” is essentially a verbatim reproduction of the first part of “Islamic Law and Constitution.” While speaking of its content list, the main book mentions only the chapters names, the verbatim one includes the subtitles as well. For further content verification, please refer to the following links: The Islamic Law and its Introduction in Pakistan, Islamic Law and Constitution — Ainty Painty (talk) 07:25, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ainty Painty If you want to suggest a move that is fine, but I don't really think you can vote "rewrite", since someone has to do the work for that. I highly doubt anyone will ever rewrite this article, in any case, and shall we change the name it will merely languish the same way it is now but with a different title, with content barely about it. But oh well, that's how it is in any case, and stubs aren't against the rules. I still disagree on a move since I think these are separate topics. Moving in a proper sense here would basically be making a whole other article. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @PARAKANYAA I understand your concerns regarding the move and rewrite. I am willing to take on the task of rewriting the article to ensure it accurately reflects the content and significance of the book. Furthermore, could you please guide me on where to start with the rewrite? Should I begin within the existing article, or is there another approach you would recommend? Since we now know this is part of the aforementioned book, it can serve then as a redirect (after the move). If necessary we can also mention this in the article to provide clarity. Thank you for your cooperation. Ainty Painty (talk) 08:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hello, Ainty Painty, just FYI, an AFD can not have a "Move" or "Rewrite" closure. Those are editing choices that can be discussed if an article is "Kept". Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 00:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not aware of any policy, guideline or consensus that says we cannot decide to move a page at AfD, and I think that WP:NOTBURO applies. James500 (talk) 13:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or merge to Islamic Law and Constitution if an article is written: This book is an independently reprinted part of Islamic Law and Constitution(the purchasing guide at the back reads "A Part of "Islamic Law and Constitution""). This part does not meet NBOOK, as far as I can tell, but Islamic Law and Constitution does. As such, this article should be deleted, unless an article is written for Islamic Law and Constitution, in which case merging usable material would be better. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 02:02, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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