Talk:J. T. Miller

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If A player is committed for the upcoming 2011-12 academic year it is not WP:Crystal. WP:Crystal would apply for verbal commitments but signed letters of intent (ie players committed for this year) are not WP:Cyrstal. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You have misinterpreted WP:CRYSTAL. Players playing for a team are not included in this. For instance, Brent Burns just got traded to the San Jose Sharks, but he won't be listed in the San Jose Sharks players category until he plays in a game. This is a well established procedure not to list players in a players category until they have actually played in a game. Many things could happen between now and when he ultimately plays that could prevent him from playing for the team. He could die (God forbid), he could be persuaded by the Rangers to play in the OHL instead, he could break his commitment and join another team. The simple fact of the matter is that this is a case of WP:CRYSTAL and he does not belong in the category. Like I said, this is well established. If you would like, you can ask at WP:HOCKEY. The other members will all tell you the same thing. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 02:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you about the San Jose Sharks case, however college ice hockey is a bit different than Junior and professional hockey with no trades and drastically less player movement. If he's on the roster for the academic year he's a player, under NCAA guidelines he's a player, if he decided to switch colleges he's have to sit out and obey all the transfer rules because he has a signed letter of intent. It can easily be removed if something happened to him such as a death, skipping college for pro (doubtful in most cases), etc... but with the upcoming academic year starting in a month or so he's a player for that college. If something does happen the cate etc... can easily be removed/updated. As I said in an earlier edit summary, this is really a non-issue since the academic year is about a month away. Putting that category is technically a week earlier but it's easier to do all at once tonight with updating these prospects' info. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:22, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is absolutely no different than any other case of a player not having yet played for a team. The category is for players who have played for the team. He HAS NOT played for the team. There is absolutely no justification you can use to say he belongs in the category. Anytime the wording, "if something happens, it can be removed" is used, you know it's a case of WP:CRYSTAL. Until the player actually plays in a game, he has not played for the team. Therefore, he does not fall within the requirements to be in that category. It's as simple as that. This IS an issue. I don't doubt that he will play for the team, but his first game will not come until October. At that point, he can be added to the category. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 02:27, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is different because playing in college is different than just playing on pro or junior hockey. In college he's a player as of the academic year that he's committed for, in this case the 2011-12 academic year. So in the eyes of the university and NCAA he's a player starting in July 2011. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:36, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not the eyes of the NCAA. It's the eyes of Wikipedia. Until he steps on the ice, he is not a player. This is a BLP. We cannot add inaccurate information for living human beings. He may be a member of the team of whatever you want to call it now or in a week or whatever, but he HAS NOT PLAYED for the team, and WILL NOT PLAY for the team until October. How can I make this more clear for you? We use players categories to define who has actually stepped on the ice for the team. Not who is a member of the team. We don't add callups to the NHL categories until they play in a game. We don't add a guaranteed junior lock to the players category until he plays in a game. We don't add college ice hockey players to their players category until they play in the game. If you continue to disagree with this, please take it to WT:Hockey. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 02:42, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, NHL callups aren't a member of the team until they are on the active roster and step on the ice for a game. They can be traded, sent down, etc... Colleges don't have farm clubs, the ability to send down or trade players. If he's on the active roster he's a player on that team. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I brought it to the main project. I don't want to get into a WP:3RR, so I'll leave the cat in the article until that discussion settles something. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 02:57, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]