Talk:Stalag Luft III murders

A fact from Stalag Luft III murders appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 July 2010 (check views). A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/July.

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The timeline is rather jumbled - needs rearranging and the point at which the government knew things made far clearer, by someone who knows...91.111.62.178 (talk) 21:49, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Was there any neutral investigation in those events. Or do we have to rely on biased sources? I see no reason to believe the general "murder" claim as several of the escapees were not killed, when recaptured, but actually even escaped again and returned again. --41.14.117.29 (talk) 16:47, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The table in the "Trials" section has a "Charge 1" and "Charge 2" that uses language such as

Charge 1: Committing a war crime in that you at divers(e) places in Germany and German occupied territory between[...]

The language of the charge is not cited inline; I would be curious to know if anyone has it, and whether it says "divers", "diverse", or whether (this seems very unlikely) it genuinely says "divers(e)".

My hypothesis is that it probably says "divers", and someone has added the parenthetical "e" as a help to those who do not know the word. If that is so, then the "e" should be removed, both because it wasn't there originally, and because divers and diverse are not in fact exact synonyms, and "diverse places" does not make much sense in context. (The difference is that divers just means "several, various", whereas diverse means that they are somehow different in character among them.) --Trovatore (talk) 08:34, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

...did Hitler give the order, when he never concerned himself with such unimportant matters as escaping PoWs at any other time? 87.81.203.117 (talk) 00:01, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Are you joking? Read the transcripts from his military conferences. Hitler was the biggest micromanager in history.131.137.245.209 (talk) 00:54, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Now that's definitely untrue. And one really has to wonder what is true in all this. It was already asked "how did they find out?" And, what's the real background of this story. Somethings smells fishy here. --105.4.196.180 (talk) 23:20, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

After the Battle this month has an article on Roger Bushell's murder that may be of interest to editors.131.137.245.209 (talk) 00:54, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the list here the same as the one at List of Allied airmen from the Great Escape? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:52, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No.174.0.48.147 (talk) 23:37, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

PoW that are escaping are allowed to be shot and it's not a war crime. It is killing troops that have surrendered that's wrong. But if they try to escape, I recall that the guards are allowed to shoot. If recaptured, the PoW could be trialed and can be executed. According to the article, Hitler knew of this and gave the order. There's no official trial but their isn't much contention of their attempted escape. I'm questioning if this should be considered a war crime. While the executioners was found guilty later, it could have been just victor's justice.--108.4.217.57 (talk) 02:30, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You are misinformed. If an escaped prisoner is recaptured he must be sent back to the POW camp. You're thinking of spies who can be tried and shot. Emperor001 (talk) 20:30, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unless they were wearing civilian clothes or German uniform. And they were. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.90.232 (talk) 12:53, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wearing the uniform of the enemy is not a crime, in fact, the Geneva Convention specifically allows it. You can't fight in it, however.174.0.48.147 (talk) 05:29, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article 23(f) of the 1907 Hague Regulations provided: “It is especially forbidden … to make improper use … of the national flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy.” In discussion of the 1929 Geneva Convention, it has been noted that how you use the uniform, and whether it risks the life of the civilian population, for example, can influence how the wearing of an enemy uniform during an escape is seen. Having said that, the notion that you can be executed after trial is nonsense, in international law (Geneva and Hague conventions) there were no such penalties for simply trying to escape. Penalties were very clearly laid out in the 1929 Geneva Convention. Even where the death penalty is an option (not for simply escaping), you have to wait a specific amount of time before it can be carried out. The prisoners who were killed were, at the time of recapture, being treated as POWs who were being sent back to the camp, there was no properly constituted trial, the death penalty was not an option, even if they had been trying to re-escape from captivity. It was a war crime.--Samesawed (talk) 17:59, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

yes the Allies shot German troops wearing Allied uniform and civilian clothes. (of course they were not prosecuted) 122.148.90.232 (talk) 08:54, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no reference to the defense raised by the Gestapo that the escaped POWs could have qualified as spies as they were captured in disguise thus lost the protection of the Geneva Convention? Obviously that defense was rejected but it was referenced in the book The Great Escape so shouldn't it be mentioned? Emperor001 (talk) 20:30, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

yes quite right. enemy soldiers in civilian clothes lost all protection of the Geneva Conventions, and could be shot.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.90.232 (talk) 12:49, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply] 

Not true; it would depend on the context. In this case, the Nazis knew exactly who they were dealing with, they were prisoners of war who they claimed they were returning to their camp, and shot them, allegedly for trying to escape. None were shot as spies.--Samesawed (talk) 13:39, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In The Real Great Escape Guy Walter mentions a Kriminalobersekretär Walter Lux. I have adjusted the entry accordingly. The version I used was the ebook.--Samesawed (talk) 18:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have just found the relevant part of this in Google Books, here. Search for "Walter Lux, and you will find it. The text is "and Kriminalobersekretär Walter Lux who was carrying a submachine gun" immediately followed by note number 19.--Samesawed (talk) 08:47, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How are those different from plain "orders"? 94.191.137.57 (talk) 13:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]