Talk:Tom Moffatt

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User:Lapsed Pacifist has twice rewritten the sentence '..former Irish Fianna Fáil politician...' to '..former Fianna Fáil politician from Ireland'. In the edit summary for the most recent change, s/he notes that the orginal construction suggests that Moffatt is no longer Irish and may have defected, e.g. to a member-state of the 'axis of evil'.

However, the alternative formation presents a similiar difficulty. Might our dear readers now think Dr Moffatt has defected from Fianna Fáil to that other axis of evil, the PD's?

The problem resides with the use of the word 'former'. When originally writing this, I wrestled with alternative wording such as 'retired'. However, 'retired' indictates that the chappy left office voluntarily rather than being booted out by the electorate; and such booting, as we know, has happened on occassion. Use of the word 'was' (...was an Irish FF politician...) would erroneously indicate that poor Dr Moffatt has defected to the here-after.

So what to do? I submit that since citizenship defections are rare, most readers would understand that the adjective 'former' does not apply to the nationality. If a defection had taken place, it would be notable enough for a sentence of its own! Therefore we should revert to my original sentence. Agreed, or are there suitable alternatives?

Seeking examples from our neighbours, I could find only this: Neil_Hamilton_(politician), which actually follows the same syntax. Notable MPs become Baron CrinklyBottom or somesuch and thus remain a pol for life.

This is not a unique problem. I have recently created pages for about 40 Irish pols, many of whom have left office, and I have used the same syntax for all of them. Whatever soln we decide on should be applied to all such pages. - Rye1967 07:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I pity any poor soul negotiating the twin perils of juche and radical redundancy. I think retired is the best way to go. It doesn't necessarily mean the retirement was voluntary, and if the unlucky person was pushed before he would jump, this can be referred to in the article.

Lapsed Pacifist 13:53, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]