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It is time to start another Sandbox (2024)


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    $\begingroup$ I have locked the previous sandboxes as "obsolete". This should avoid confusion with the duplicate, since they hardly have the same content. For future reference, just flag the to-be-closed sandbox for mod attention requesting it to be obsoleted. $\endgroup$
    – L.Dutch Mod
    Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 18:44
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Reminder to readers : Please do not vote on proposed questions. At least 2 persons/accounts skipped the sandbox's rules recently. For everyone's sake please read them and apply them carefully. $\endgroup$ Commented Dec 30, 2022 at 22:51
  • $\begingroup$ Maintenance question: is it appropriate to up/downvote a proposed question to get it to zero? $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Mar 2, 2023 at 6:28
  • $\begingroup$ @elemtilas I do. People aren't supposed to be voting and bias of any kind isn't the point here, but it's hard to break a habit. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 5, 2023 at 1:03
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    $\begingroup$ @elemtilas :-) Your edit is the third time "please don't vote" is mentioned in the post. I'm OK with it... but I doubt anything will change. Based on how users use the Sandbox, very few of them read the instructions. C'est la vie. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 6, 2023 at 19:38
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH --- I didn't see the third one! (oops!) I figured that if the message were closer to the top, it might get seen and processed early on. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Mar 7, 2023 at 3:22
  • $\begingroup$ Question : What should be done when no one comments under your post? Should the question follow the sandbox procedure (->adding it to the question list, etc.), or should it be discarded silently and posted on main, without any link to the sandbox? $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 1, 2023 at 7:15
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    $\begingroup$ @Tortliena You've discovered the weakness in the system. The Sandbox only works when a bunch of people are regularly participating. That was once true - but today few have the time to participate. I'd hate to suggest that the Sandbox's time has come and gone, but were I a querent with an unaddressed question in the Sandbox after 30 or 60 days, I'd post it on Main - and if anybody complained on Main, I'd post a link back to the Sandbox with the question, "where've you been?" $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jun 1, 2023 at 7:25
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH I'll follow your advice ^^. This also implies I can't get my own questions reviewed, since it looks like I'm kinda the last one here 🦋. I can almost hear the tumbleweeds rolling, western movie style 😅. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 1, 2023 at 13:46
  • $\begingroup$ @Tortliena It seriously hurt the value of the Sandbox when our Stack Exchange Overlords decided to discontinue the community ads. That was how we kept people reminded to stop in. Those ads were very effective. I assume SE wanted the space for monetization purposes, but that's only a pessimistic guess. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jun 1, 2023 at 15:51
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I concur: if a query has sat here uncommented on, the OP is well within rights to post it on main, and if anyone there complains, put it back on them that they didn't help when help was sought. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jun 1, 2023 at 17:39

17 Answers 17

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Title:

Scientifically plausible way to bring the Earth to a 28- to 30-hour solar day

Doomsday clocks are sort of a common theme in my stories. When I saw @eHaraldo post the sandbox question about slowing down earth’s rotation to create a 30-hour day, and then apparently abandon it; I am now adopting it. Because it’s a good question.


I'm worldbuilding a post-apocalyptic story set in the near future (~200 years). In my story, the Earth's rotation speed has been slowed down to 28- to 30-hours per day. I'm trying to explain how this happened. Note: the 200 years is approximate, and it allows for the day to be slowed down less abruptly. i.e., **there is no need for a single, abrupt event **.

The scale of the event, given the above numbers will require an input of 30.014 billion zetajoules of energy applied against the earth's rotation through that ≅200 years. It won't all go to slowing the planet, figure something bigger to offset waste.

My research suggests that it may be possible through several events though I will need the confirmation of an expert opinion before considering it an answer.

  • A barrage/trail of asteroid impacts
  • A neutron star flyby
  • The moon doing something horrible
  • A disruption of the Earth's core

My setting requirements

Given: the cataclysmic event has wiped out most of humanity, and will have caused a series of major geophysical disasters, including tidal waves, earthquakes, volcanoes, and weather tragedies.

Some humans and enough of a biosphere to keep them alive must have survived, but mass devastation of the planet including extinction of many species is acceptable and expected.

The Earth's orbit may or may not have been affected, but tidal locking did not happen.

The above consequences are acceptable side-effects to the alteration of the solar day.

The expected consequences will be:

  • Food shortages and famine
  • Water shortages and drought
  • Disease outbreaks
  • Social unrest and violence
  • Economic collapse
  • Environmental degradation

Q: What cataclysm might create this world within 200 years?


I assume the tags for this will be [planets] [apocalypse] [solar-system] [science-based]

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  • $\begingroup$ 1. Suggest that the "My setting requirements" can be condensed down to "Some humans and enough of a biosphere to keep them alive must have survived, but mass devastation of the planet including extinction of many species is acceptable and expected." 2. Heading is saying "scientifically plausible" but there are no tags for level of realism. 3. Suggest specifying whether it can be done deliberately by very, very powerful aliens, since I can't see a way to leave any biosphere if the change results from a single event. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 4:36
  • $\begingroup$ @KerrAvon2055 I've incorporated those suggestions and added some research. I had a very similar question a while back, this might fit that plotline. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 6:15
  • $\begingroup$ Is this Sandbox question still active? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Oct 26, 2023 at 18:13
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ It is for me. Still awaiting feedback on the last edit. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 0:02
  • $\begingroup$ @VogonPoet It's been a long time. (a) Providing your own answers and asking for more is prohibited in the help center. That all needs to be removed. (b) Asking for "the most realistic" anything is off-topic because that's an impossible-to-judge criteria. What's realistic to you? What's realistic to me? What's realistic to my little sister or a Tibetian monk who likes reading scifi? How will you objectively judge a best answer? (c) The "Obvious Things" section should be deleted. It's irrelevant to the question as they're all implied by requirement #2. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 3:23
  • $\begingroup$ Otherwise it's a perfectly reasonable question for the site. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 3:30
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Is this question still active? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jun 4 at 16:05
  • $\begingroup$ I believe I have incorporated your last recommendations as best I could - last edit 2 days after you responded. It would be nice to have another set of eyes on it, that's what I was waiting for. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Jun 15 at 0:24
  • $\begingroup$ @KerrAvon2055 Could you take a peek at this to see if we've met grade? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 11 at 19:43
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH looks good to me, apologies for not checking the sandbox as often as I should, especially when it's in response to my feedback. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 11 at 21:59
  • $\begingroup$ @KerrAvon2055 :-) No problem! I need to remember to visit more often, too. I figure, while I'm here, if the OP has stepped up and made changes, invite previous commenters to weigh in. Maybe together we can keep us all poking our heads in from time to time. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 13 at 2:17
  • $\begingroup$ @VogonPoet, cry havoc and let loose the Stack Exchange questions of war, my friend. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 13 at 2:18
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Graduated Questions List

In accordance with Sandbox policy, answers containing graduated questions will be deleted. This answer is designed to be a repository for all those questions that have graduated. It is a community wiki answer, so add in your question here, at the end of the list, once it is posted on the main site! Position #1 is an example of how to do this to get the ball rolling.

  1. Sandbox for proposed Questions
  2. How large of a magma chamber do I need to geothermally power a small city?
  3. How can muscle atrophy due to long gestation in artificial wombs be avoided?
  4. Knocking Out Zombies
  5. How to map arms of the galaxy?
  6. How would I go about establishing phenotype in the case of co-dominance where mixed phenotype is not an option?
  7. How can I determine gene expression in cases of multiple co-dominant genes?
  8. Surviving Organ Failure
  9. How to Optimize CO2 and H2 Intake for a Sessile Methane-Producing Organism
  10. Solutions for an Aquatic Race to Harvest the Sugar Under Sea Grass Meadows (edited for reopening)
  11. How to recreate a "land" harp that can work in the deep sea?
  12. Evidence of lightning-caused mass extinction
  13. Toddler/Baby Labor
  14. Producing A Chosen One Via Eugenics: Is It Possible?
  15. Would killing 444 billion humans leave any physical impact on Earth that's measurable?
  16. Finding possible geological incongruities
  17. https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/q/259673/40609
  18. Looking backwards to navigate forwards
  19. Will The Cluster World hold onto an atmosphere for a useful length of time without further intervention?
  20. Adjusting the fundamental interactions to create abnormally hard structures
  21. Atmospheric composition/segregation across the gradient on an Alderson Disc
  22. What situation leading to a complete sex separation fit my criteria?
  23. Weather in The Cluster World
  24. Is my magic enough to keep a person without skin alive for a month?
  25. Compacting biological traits arising from emergent biological mechanisms into singular artificial genes
  26. How could the power to adjust the fundamental forces deal with antimatter attacks?
  27. Locally warping space so Earth turns "inside out" and engulfs the moon
  28. defending a steampunk airship against feral angels
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1
  • $\begingroup$ @le_chat I added it. Please delete your comment. Thanks! $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jul 3 at 4:40
0
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What qualities would an AGI need to gain legal protections today?

Sandbox notes:
This question was closed as "opinion based" however it is important to my many other AGI questions. I need this world built. Any help is great.
- Related question for this world
- What are the parenting options available to species that reproduce by fragmentation?
- What faith do my AI follow that is most belligerent to human traditions and beliefs?
Per the Meta reference on "stoy based closing", this question is on topic, as it asks: "What could cause a government [English common law] to pass such-and-such law [AGI rights] given these societal conditions [an AGI of X definition is created]"

First: assume society is as it is today, British common law; United States might be easiest but any government will suffice.

My story has an AGI species interacting with humans and their definition needs to snub any qualms about, "The police wouldn't do that because legally..."

A good answer provides the "what" portion of the on-topic example question in the Meta about "Why is my question too 'Story-based'"; which is formed as:

What could cause a government to pass such-and-such law given these societal conditions?

Where:

  • What Is the answer you give, narrowly defining qualities of an AGI
  • government is English common law government
  • such-and-such law is, specifically, the Bill of Rights principle of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" classifying these fictional AGI as "men" in the same way it now classifies women as "men" in modern interpretation.
  • The societal conditions are that a new artificial species has been created and propagated throughout society.

A good question avoids

  1. changes to society
  2. relating this species to current AI or its methods
  3. simplistic "just write a law" answers (laws don't protect anything under common law; blind protections of the law works only in dictatorships)

The Common Law principle that applies here

This is an aside for clarification
Laws of society can only grant rights if there is some means to remedy the violation of the right. For example, a law that protects a human’s right to breathe water can’t be tried in court even if some human finds out they can’t breathe water. The law simply can not possibly “fix” the thing that’s been “taken” from you - an impossible ability to breathe water. That is a ridiculous example, I know, but ridiculous laws do happen. The point is, simply saying you have a “right” to this or that doesn’t create any legal right unless you're in a dictatorship. The common law principle originated in Roman law as ubi jus ibi remedium, “where there is a right, there is a remedy”, and remains in effect today when our courts decide if you have been violated.

But this principle applies to my problem through its logically equivalent contrapositive: Si nulla remedium existit, tunc nulla ius existit. Thus the existence of rights is contingent upon the availability of remedies to enforce and protect those rights. Without a remedy, any purported rights become meaningless and unenforceable. Ergo; we do not put dead murderers on trial, punish insane felons, or sue dead offenders, or punish people who safely shoot their own computer. What could the judge take from one and give to the other to remedy your loss?
A real-world example: we have a right to have our credit information accurately reported. This law is called the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA). But even if the credit company gives false information about your credit, the court can’t and won't give you anything. Spokeo, Inc. v. Robins (2016) ruled that even though misleading figures were published by the credit card company, the plaintiff could not show that they actually lost anything from inaccurate or incomplete information in their credit reports. There is no right to relief until you have actually “lost” something.
thought experiment
This is about designing a fictional Artificial General Intelligence (AGI), and answering what “ingredient”—for lack of a better word—would afford it rights under existing common law: Let’s assume we invent the asked fictional AGI, and we put them into a mechanical body. Now let’s assume a group lobbies and passes a law that makes it illegal to willfully dismember and destroy the AGI, and treat such an act as a “wrongful death.” They classify this as a crime just like it would be for a human (because again, no laws are changed)

When an AGI is destroyed, someone claiming a relationship to it wants the system to prosecute for wrongful death. Well, there clearly exists a “wrongful death” law in the books because it was passed. But the judge’s first job is to decide if some remedy exists to what was “lost.” This means the judge has to be convinced that at first, the AGI even had a right to life before asking if a life has been lost.

So the question came to me: If an AGI is a computer program, and computer programs can be and are backed up and saved regularly, so effectively they can only be lost by deliberate manipulation of the server; does a computer program have a “right to life?” This doesn't work! Something has to be different about these AGI.

What about our world (specifically, about the qualities of an AGI in this world) needs to be changed

to give artificially generated algorithms and programs a right to life, that could be recognized and fairly remedied in a human justice system? (Answers do not need to fix the problem, the question only asks what needs fixing)

Emphasis again, I don’t believe our real world could possibly argue for the right of an artificial construct to exist, as they currently exist. The question tries to pin down what prevents this, and removes that quality from what we call an "AI" (by changing the AGI, or maybe the environment - anything except the basic principles of jurisprudence)

I can’t state this enough. This question is NOT asking about current AI or anything existing today.

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    $\begingroup$ So you came to the sandbox ^^. I'll be sadly honest, not many people come here, so you probably won't have much help besides mine. I'll try my best though 🐶. If we sum up a bit your situation, since you accumulated a good chunk of small edits and clarifications, it'd be wise to make a brand new V2 to start on a new leaf. However, you mustn't invalidate existing answers, and at the same time I guess you do wanna ask this exact question... We're in a kinda tough spot 😵. Guess the best thing to do right now is to improve it then check whether it should be an edit or a new question altogether. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 13:51
  • $\begingroup$ The first thing I'd do is to focus on what this question is about rather than what it isn't about. The main topic should take at least half of the question : This will help people understand what you're looking for and prevent undesired topics to indirectly stain your question. Still, I believe it'll be useful to keep one (and only one) paragraph telling you're not looking for a change of law but a change of A.G.I., if I understand what you want correctly. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 13:51
  • $\begingroup$ To improve directly on the "opinion-based" part, the classic thing to do is to tell as accurately as possible what your criteria for a best answer is. This often goes with superlative, e.g. : "What's the safest way to carry and throw marble sized high-explosive grenades?". Note this "superlative" should be defined as clearly as you can : "efficient" and "best" are commonly used, but they often are thought to be too blurry. Might be hard to pull off here, but if you do that it'll definitely win you some points 💯. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 14:00
  • $\begingroup$ For the resting rest, I guess we'll have to see how it goes and work from there ^^. I'm not confident enough right now to tell you whether the two things above will get your question reopened, yet I don't have many advices at this point that will ensure whatever you do it'll get better. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 14:09
  • $\begingroup$ The entire question is the last sentence; which is a less specific wording of the title: "It’s a fictional AGI that can fit into our society; why does it fit?" (e.g., because it can reciprocate?) i.e., why is it legally protected in existing law. A good answer shows what quality the AGI has that makes it fit (e.g., because it can reciprocate?). I could move all the negatives to a "a good answer avoids.." block at the bottom, The risk is people scanning the first bit & hastily posting answers that invalidate rearranging the question. So the "DO NOT" is critical to avoid crippling non-answers. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 14:12
  • $\begingroup$ When you talk too much about "it's not X", it means you haven't clearly defined "it's Y". I know you can describe something about what it's not, like "dogs are not insects, not birds, not fishies...", but you'll never really get to the core if you don't define what it is : "a dog is a carnivorous mammal". This will make your question much shorter (so easier to read and understand) and clearer (people will not as easily bind themselves to some off-topic questions just because they were written). This is why this part should be summarized ^^. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 14:24
  • $\begingroup$ Updated. The "It's Y" is stated as "artificially generated algorithms and programs," and that's the only unchangeable aspect of them. The other "It's Y" is: "compatible with modern legal protections without changing the law." $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 16:08
  • $\begingroup$ There are many legal systems which all operate differently. Within a legal system each government has their own set of laws which operate differently. Even within a specific legal system and set of laws there can be differing precedence depending on the court that hears such a case. The scope of your question is far too broad without this. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 17:32
  • $\begingroup$ I cannot think of any system for determining whether a non-person shall be granted the same rights as a person under the law. If such a system exists then that system will have your answer. If such a system doesn't exist then any petition of personhood under the law will require some controversy requiring the adjudication of the courts. This will include persuasive arguments on how to interpret and extend existing laws to cover a novel situation, both for and against the granting of personhood in this specific case. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 17:38
  • $\begingroup$ In other words in the absence of explicit laws on the subject the traits necessary to grant an AI legal rights will be the result of how a judge chooses to rule based on the competing actions of at least two individuals. Keep in mind that these arguments will be focused on the specifics of the case. The judge, if convinced will then establish an appropriate standard. That much character motivated action has nothing to do with any fact of your world and everything to do with hoy you decide events within your world will play out. Such a question is unsuitable for this site. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 17:45
  • $\begingroup$ IOW the case would resolve to Virginia v. Loving or State of Tennessee v. John Thomas Scopes in determining personhood. I agree, it would do that. I need the question to steer away from the assumption the answer has to win a Supreme Court ruling on one case. The world needs a definition of a being that could have standing in that court and nothing more. With standing, there is protection; standing isn’t a choice, it’s constitutionally defined - federal in the case of “men created equal”. I chose those tags for that reason. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Sep 15, 2023 at 21:09
  • $\begingroup$ "The world needs a definition of a being that could have standing in that court an dnothing more." You don't understand that your problem is a failure to understand the underpinnings of law and how it came to pass. I have a family full of attorneys and it's been fascinating to discuss with them over the decades the "rights" or "needs" of the poor, the homeless, the wealthy.... most of whom aren't treated as "people" today, but as a "class," disassociating and disenfranchising them from the basic rights of "people." That's why I agree with the initial closure reason of ... (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Sep 16, 2023 at 13:59
  • $\begingroup$ ... opinion-based, but it could just as easily be closed for violating the book rule. The problem is that you're looking at law today with a snapshot view and believe that all you need is a paragraph of text to solve your problem. This, despite what paragraphs we have having been developed after millenia of blood and centuries of debate and experimentation. You're asking us to put the cart before the horse and you're expecting some form of definitive answer when, in reality, the development of the legal structure you're looking for would be a novel (and an interesting one) ... (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Sep 16, 2023 at 14:02
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Yes, it is still waiting for a suggestion or nod. $\endgroup$
    – Vogon Poet
    Commented Nov 5, 2023 at 0:05
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I'm still having a hard time seeing this as anything other than a story-based question. Here's my problem: I come from a family full of lawyers. Lawyers do their job by making decisions (prohibited in the help center about how to craft arguments and about what laws to challenge - and this presupposes that such an argument could win against the "court of public opinion," which decision can only be created by narrative necessity. But, worst of all, law is NOT objective. It's hugely subjective, based on assumptions ... $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 3:10
0
$\begingroup$

Title: Is this time travel mechanic plausible?

I was trying to ask a question for a novel I am trying to make, but it was closed for many reasons. I need help making it ask-worthy. This is my question with various revisions that I made after it was closed, but with some parts remaining in hopes that they can still remain in the finished question.


I am trying to make a novel, and I wanted to know if this is a good hard science theory for time travel. Given that (as far as I know) white holes are theorized to have negative mass; and that anything with negative mass travels faster than the speed of light*, would that mean that white holes can travel faster than the speed of light? If not, why? This is disregarding causality, I already have a workaround.

*1 : This is due to the same principle that makes massless particles travel the speed of light. I believe it has something to do with inertia, in which case this would make sense, but either way, this was used in a theory for tachyons and was not criticized.

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30
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ (a) There is no such thing as hard science in regard to time travel. There is not even a suggestion of proof for time travel. Asking this question in any context other than science-fiction will raise the risk of closure and down votes. (b) You start by saying you're trying to set a rule for time travel, but you don't describe one. Your question is if the supposition of negative mass (ficitonal) justifies FTL (fictional) of white holes (fictional). (c) Tachyons are also fictional, so upholding them as the rationale for treating your question as hard science fails your intent. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 1, 2023 at 16:50
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Your biggest problem is that you're missing about three years of college-level classes in astrophysics and mathematics. You want us to provide, not just a realistic solution, but a real solution to a problem that you don't know isn't real due to the lack of that education - and Stack Exchange is not the place to get it, even in the form of sound bites. If you step away from insisting that all this be real and ask the question as "In my world negative mass exists, which leads to white holes ... $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 1, 2023 at 16:52
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ moving FTL, which leads to the following detailed explanation for time travel, is this consistent?" then we have a question we can work with for this Stack. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 1, 2023 at 16:52
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Plausible is a subjective quality that has nothing to do with the facts of your world but the knowledge of your audience and how receptive they are to how you present your world. We're here to help you establish facts about your world not determine how people will feel about your presentation of them. Remember that magic and FTL are both physical impossibilities and yet their existence in well written works of fiction does nothing to detract from our enjoyment of them. Similarly there is no level of plausibility that will salvage a poorly written story. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 1, 2023 at 20:57
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH The only reason that tachyons and faster-than-light travel are believed to be impossible is because they are believed to violate the laws of physics (specifically causality), but if the fifth dimension were brought up, (comprising of many timelines) then causality can be avoided, as changing the past is impossible, you just follow along in a branch. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 12:47
  • $\begingroup$ And as I have explained in another thread, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Plus, even if there were not any theorized ways to create these things (there are), it is a science fiction novel. Any part the author can’t explain just gets ignored. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 12:49
  • $\begingroup$ I am not using tachyons to prove my idea, I am using the accepted parts of the theory, which is unrelated to the actual tachyons. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 12:51
  • $\begingroup$ I provided the solution, I want you to tell me if it makes sense. And because positive mass exists, negative mass must exist as well. Which means that ftl must exist, and wormholes could exist. Also, I am not insisting that these things exist, they have never been proven, yet they have never been disproven either, which is perfect for a hard science sci fi novel. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 12:55
  • $\begingroup$ Your turn, @sphennings. Magic, which has a variable definition, usually means something that violates the laws of thermodynamics. That is more than likely a physical impossibility. FTL, however, is already possible with negative mass, and we have no good evidence that it is impossible, at least with the fifth dimension. So as long as negative mass is impossible, true FTL is too. So before you say it is impossible, you have to disprove negative mass. Feel free to do so. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 12:59
  • $\begingroup$ I wanted someone to tell me if this was formatted right. Save the criticisms for the actual question. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 13:00
  • $\begingroup$ The sandbox is used to help you improve your questions, this includes ensuring that you are asking questions that is appropriate for this site. There are more significant issues than formatting with your question. Asking "Is X plausible?" is not a worldbuilding question and should not be asked on this site. Please remember that not every question about worldbuilding is suitable for this site. Questions that are too broad or opinion based are also not permitted and will be closed. We don't want to waste our time addressing formatting issues on questions inappropriate for this site. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 13:16
  • $\begingroup$ @WhatsYourIQ192 Sorry for the delay. As elements gathered from another post indicates... Some viewpoint about new users, I'd like to first tell you I'm sorry about the way you're currently being received in the sandbox. This isn't probably not what you were looking for when coming here. Relativity theory is not my forte, but I'll try to help you reach your goals and improve your work anyway. Just give me some time! $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 16:56
  • $\begingroup$ Ok, the first thing I can easily suggest is to remove notions of hard-science in your question. Don't worry, it will not affect your work. As the other two said, hard-science is... Harder than you think. Hypothetical objects (like white holes) rarely have a place there, as no one have managed to prove their existence. It's more some kind of mathematical thoughts. Removing this term will effectively reduce the ire from people who expect something ultra-hard. [...] $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 2, 2023 at 17:44
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ I provided the solution, I want you to tell me if it makes sense. It doesn't make sense from a Real World perspective, which is what you're asking us to accept. You're really fighting this. Per the help center, our goal is to help you develop the rules of an imaginary world. You can set those rules as you wish. You have not explained time travel, so there are no rules for us to judge. You are asking of a hypothesized Real World condition can exist. What are you expecting? The answer is "we don't know." Now, if you want to set a rule for your imaginary world.... $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 3, 2023 at 3:02
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ And before you get going on that last comment, please try to remember that validating a "good hard science theory" is not our job. We will gladly help you develop and consistently use rules of an imaginary world of your own creation. We're not going to let you ask on Main if your strong belief in a hypothesis is "good hard science." $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 3, 2023 at 3:06
0
$\begingroup$

I have posted this question in sandbox because:

  1. I'm not sure whether this is more suited to worldbuilding or the math stack-exchange site.
  2. This question, while simple to me, may feel convoluted because it's asking for a general algorithm as opposed to a single answer to a single query.

Title: "Simple model for trait propagation in a population"

In a worldbuilding project of mine, humans can have a pseudo-magical trait that, if present in either mother or father, is 100% of the time passed on to a child (unlike genetic traits, which are generally more complicated than that).

In order to be able to estimate how quickly this trait is propagated in a given population of humans, I'd like to have a simplified model that I can apply to different sizes of populations.

I have the rules I would need to run a simulation of this model, and I could probably program it if I have to. But I suspect that there's likely to be a mathematical/probability-based way to do it without needing the simulation, and thought I would ask if anyone here would be able to point me in the right direction.

The model

Suppose we have a fixed population size of 2n, consisting of n males and n females. Associated with each member of the population is a simple true or false value indicating the presence of the trait.

Each generation, the males and females are randomly paired off and each pair produces exactly 2 offspring - one male and one female. These offspring are the (exactly 2n) members of the next generation, and each is given a value of true if and only if either or both of their parents had it.

With the above model, I could run simulations to answer questions like,

  • "For a population of 1000 with 1 trait-positive individual, how many generations would it take (on average) for the whole population to be trait-positive?"
  • "For a population of 500 with 100 trait-positive males and 250 trait-positive females, how many individuals (on average) would be trait-positive after 3 generations?"

The question

Is there a mathematical algorithm or approach I could use to answer these kinds or questions, using this model, without needing to simulate it generation-by-generation?

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  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Hi Qami! Just on the surface of things, I would say remember that WB.SE is for the rules of your world: how things are the way they are, how they work, what might be done with them. Since you've already got the world and have already determined a specific rule of your world, I would argue that WB is not the right forum for this question. That said, I'm sure you would get an answer here! I think math.se would be the better choice, though. At least at first: if they have a conniption about your scenario, I would not complain if they exported the question to WB. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Nov 21, 2023 at 21:51
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Cool problem. At it's core you're asking a straight math problem and will probably get better mileage asking mathematicians about it. While I wouldn't recommend asking it on the main site I've definitely been nerd snipped by this problem. I'd love to see what comes of this if you post it on a math or statistics focused exchange. You could also post it in the worldbuilding chat and see if anyone wanders by and gets distracted. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 21, 2023 at 22:18
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Past the first generation there will always be an equal number of men and women with the trait. The maximum growth of the trait in a generation will be a doubling, with the average being a function of how likely it is for there to pair off two trait having individuals each generation. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 21, 2023 at 22:23
  • $\begingroup$ @sphennings You've hit the nail on the head with the second comment, about the initial doubling and diminishing returns as the proportion increases. This is exactly what I want to get the math for. I'll wait another day or so to see if I have more input, but otherwise I'll post on math.stackexchange. $\endgroup$
    – Qami
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 1:30
  • $\begingroup$ While it's technically worldbuilding (you're indirectly asking how the world is at some time "t" because of that trait), you've contrived the problem so much to a math model it will not be accepted here. So indeed maths.SE it is. Let's just hope that they are not seeing only the world, not the maths (some on other sites have tunnel vision on that), because the worst thing that can happen to you is get migrated to WB:SE, then closed here for being off-topic and migrated back to never be reopened again... $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 9:03
  • $\begingroup$ Do note that because eventually everyone will have the trait, it will probably not be considered the best worldbuilding question out there. Indeed, and that's what Elemtilas showed, people tend to think the world in absolute terms, rather than something that evolves over time. That's a lot due to the fact worlds are made for stories, and stories are set in a specific point of time, giving this "absolute" feeling. Most changes to the world are then made by the story, rather than an ominous, unwavering world rule. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 9:06
  • $\begingroup$ If you want to have more prior research, there's a youtube channel called Primer which focuses a lot on evolution of traits within people, with funny looking blobs and a bit of Unity Engine. I'm not sure you'll find the formulas you want there, but it can really help understand the various cases of evolution. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 9:10
  • $\begingroup$ To be clear - and using my starting conditions rather than yours - we might have 500 magic people in a population significantly larger than 500. Those 500 are guaranteed to have two and only two offspring regardless who they're paired with. Both offspring are guaranteed to be magic so long as one parent is magic. So, best case first gen result is 2500 and worst case is 1000 and since a a random number is involved it's a random result between those two limits (for the first gen). Did I get that right? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 16:02
  • $\begingroup$ I expect respondents will complain about the offspring condition of your model. If no couple can have more or less than two offspring, you have zero population growth and decline other than the first few until your average max age begins removing non-breeding pairs, in which case this is a model that will only answer the question "how many generations until my population is X% saturated?" $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 16:08
  • $\begingroup$ Frankly, I'd research virus propagation in populations. There must be a statistical estimator for that purpose - whole games have been made based on the concept. In other words, this problem is fundamentally solved. You'll need to reword the question to remove the magic part of it ("I have a trait that propagates according to the following rules...") but I recommend you ask on Biology or Medical Sciences. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 16:13
  • $\begingroup$ Final advice: the problem with random numbers is that they only work statistically over large groups of something: people, time, etc. In other words, a software program would likely churn out the same result for your first bulleted result if asked multiple times... but it'll churn out a different result each time for the second bullet example because three generations isn't long enough for the effects of random initial conditions to wash out. Virus propagation estimators work because propagation works randomly within the space of hours but the simulations are looking at weeks or months. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 16:21
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @Tortliena Thank you for your feedback! The fact that everyone will eventually have the trait is indeed by design and is part of the evolution of this world. I'm planning many stories that take place in this world, at different points in its history, and the purpose of this mathematical model is just to help me maintain consistency over the timeline and the different populations that are exposed to the trait at different times. $\endgroup$
    – Qami
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 17:59
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH Thank you for your feedback! There are of course many considerations - biological, cultural, demographics, and more - that will need to be factored in to get more useful estimates. This model is very deliberately simplified and unrealistic by itself. It's simply intended to be a baseline upon which to apply these other considerations. I like your idea of trying on medical sciences - I'll check there if math.se doesn't pan out! $\endgroup$
    – Qami
    Commented Nov 22, 2023 at 18:03
  • $\begingroup$ Is this question still active? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 2:58
  • $\begingroup$ Going once... Going twice.... $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 11 at 19:49
0
$\begingroup$

What techniques can be used to keep magic weapon technology secret?

In a previous question I had asked how I could ensure that they would not wish to go all imperial and stay isolationist despite the military might granted by them and an answer I really liked and plan to use is that others could steal the weapons and take the advantage. However, I don't know much about how they could try to limit the spread of that information to other countries because then they could lose the advantage regardless.

I don't need a way for the knowledge to be completely hidden but I would like some advice about what techniques or methods they could use to hide it like how some real world nations managed to keep trade secrets that could still be applied to magic technology.

One constraint with this question is that it is impossible to learn without weapons or a mentor as the weapons are made with a divine language forged into it that was gifted to the dwarves by the deity that created them. As an additional note he language has no effect when inscribed on anything else and may or may not have a spoken form. (I plan on actually making the whole language later after I finish a different language for that universe.)

Does this version look better?

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16
  • $\begingroup$ (a) Throw in a link to the previous question (e.g., [In a previous question](http:...)) (b) Can a magical weapon be examined to "reverse engineer" the magic? Or must the process be stolen like a recipe from the manufacturer? (c) Keeping a perfect secret isn't impossible, but it's whomping hard. What, then, do you mean by "indefinitely?" (d) We've had similar questions like this, but they often suffer because you're not asking for help solving a worldbuilding problem. Rather, you're asking for help developing a story plot. (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 1 at 18:21
  • $\begingroup$ ... From that perspective, you could (1) ask that answers be restricted to non-story solutions (e.g., the god won't allow the language to be used by anyone but dwarves) or (2) you could ask for help developing the nature of magic use for the dwarves (what's the magic system and how could it be crafted to make it ethnically keyed?). It's a skill to learn to separate the story from the world rules. I think this Q can be made to work, we just need to focus on rules vs. plot. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 1 at 18:24
  • $\begingroup$ I find questions in absolutes to be not great. For the cases where an absolute is just unrealistic. Could dwarves completely control all information and no other outsider be able to glean it? Yes. But it'd be extremely hard and would basically mean no dwarf ever interacts with anybody else. If they do, sooner or later some information would leak out. However, dwarves can still maintain hold over the technology while others know some stuff about it. Dwarves can limit what others know and how useful it is. That's a lot more natural development that doesn't require author fiat. $\endgroup$
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 1 at 19:14
  • $\begingroup$ Thus a lot more realistic scenario would be that other groups may be able to replicate some of what the dwarves can do. But in limited capacity - less quality, drastically less quantity (e.g., 1 magic sword for every 100 a dwarf can create), excessive cost, etc. And dwarves can keep their secrets so that nobody can really come close to rival them. Even if other magic weapons do exist in the world. Makes for way better setting, too with more potential stories to tell and other consequences where a world is not in absolutes. I'd recommend thinking about changing your world thus your question. $\endgroup$
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 1 at 19:18
  • $\begingroup$ I think I'll probably just lax like like what @VLAZ suggested since I don't think itd work well for my world for it to be hard wired to be ethnically keyed, but in response to b.), since later I'll make an actual language (I'll refer to it as a conlang) it could be reverse engineered but it would require either trial and error or some way of learning the language from the weapons like a Rosetta stone. Currently I'm working on making a different language that's used among the gods, but later I'll move onto the magic weapon one. $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 1 at 19:58
  • $\begingroup$ And also I can definitely see how this is kinda more of a story question, thanks for pointing that out $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 1 at 19:59
  • $\begingroup$ Oh and by indefinitely I hadn't quite meant literally but as of when the story would start it would have to have be at least past living memory of the dwarves when they had received the language without it yet being common. $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 1 at 20:03
  • $\begingroup$ A non-story based question can focus on what tools and techniques would be involved to keep the technology of magic weapons secret. Acknowledging it doesn't need to be completely sealed knowledge but what factors would limit the information that propagated outside to be as useful. This can have answers that point out how real-world trade secrets are kept. And how knowledge and skills were historically held by a given group. $\endgroup$
    – VLAZ
    Commented Mar 1 at 20:06
  • $\begingroup$ Sorry, but what parts would I have to tweak to remove the story based part of it? You don't need to tell me exactly what to write (I'm aware this is a learning process) , I'm just not used to this sort of thing Edit: Wait I think I know what you mean now, I'll tweak this later this weekend when I have more time since I'll have to leave to go camping in a couple hours before returning on sunday $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 1 at 20:09
  • $\begingroup$ By the way real quick, I edited it to have a hyperlink and clarified on indefinitely, I'll try revamping the whole question later this weekend $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 1 at 20:12
  • $\begingroup$ @VLAZ Does this look better? $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 4 at 13:26
  • $\begingroup$ bump to show this isn't abandoned $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 11 at 23:16
  • $\begingroup$ So the weapon must be a specifically made weapon, the magic imbued by a specific person, and the magic can only be learned via a mentor? Does this boil down to "how do I protect the individuals who know the secret?" Please keep in mind that per the help center, we help build worlds (rules independent of all stories) but don't help write stories. Specifically, we don't help you with choices made by individuals or groups. Thus, the question must be seeking a systemic answer. Is, e.g. "build a secret city and guard it to within an inch of its life" the type of answer you're looking for? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 2:30
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH It's not a specific person per se, ideally it would be a whole field of work to create magic weapons and commonplace only WITHIN the kingdom (practically just a city state though), now that I'm reading this rephrasing though I'm seeing how it might cross the line into story building since it is technically just that nations decisions $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Mar 25 at 11:53
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @JBH I actually just got back from my summer break a little bit ago (I had lots of different trips out of my state and the country) so if you had asked even a couple weeks ago it would be no, but now I am back again. $\endgroup$
    – Informer
    Commented Aug 13 at 13:20
0
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If 30% of global military spending for the next 30 years were instead spent on an "intelligent life" backup colony, where should we site it and why?

Originally posted (and subsequently closed) question.

Some discussion in this meta post.

Notes about the question (not for the description)

The plot of the story is 1) AI near-miss happens, 2) There is agreement to spend big on a solution, 3) Then debate on the best solution occurs, 4) Colonize Venus wins, 5) Earth colonizes Venus with solar powered aircraft.

I'm looking for help with (3). I want the debate about alternatives to be as realistic as possible, so I need some more creative and well-supported counter proposals. It is the brainstorming and exchange of perspectives from the proponents of different ideas that I'd like the community's help with.

Question Description

Some industry leaders have proposed that AI poses a risk of extinction. Suppose some kind of an AI-related incident occurs that really scares humanity into action, and that this causes the world's governments to come together and agree to reallocate 30% of the many trillions of dollars that they spend on defense to developing a single insurance policy megaproject called "Plan B". Plan B must ensure that, even in the event of civilization-on-Earth ending calamity, intelligent life will nevertheless persevere.

What would be the best place to site this backup colony?

Keep in mind that whatever "Plan B" is, offering better natural immunity to AI-related threats will be an acceptance criterion. If it's a backup plan in case of other existential threats, such as nuclear war or an extinction-level comet or asteroid impact, that would be a bonus.

It would be valid (not necessarily the best site) if the colony was sited in an underground bunker on Earth or in orbit around the Earth. If the best site is off-world, assume that the cost of going to Mars, Venus, or the Moon is 1B per metric ton (MT). Global military spending in 2022 was 2.24 Trillion USD/Year. We can assume that somehow we will lower the cost-per-kg by a factor of 100 for such a large project, so if the entire budget was spent on interplanetary transportation, our mass budget would be around...

MassBudget=(30years)(0.3)($2.24T)(100)/($1B/MT)=2,160,000tons

Of course, the mass budget for a giant orbiting habitat or an underground bunker on Earth could be higher, and it is unrealistic to spend the entire budget on launch. Perhaps a 50/50 split would be more reasonable.

I'm looking for the best site when using an approach grounded in present-day physics, materials, engineering, and medical knowledge. The answer does not need to provide a detailed plan, it just needs to explain enough to illustrate the key advantages of the proposed site and establish why it is the best alternative.


JBH's Proposed Edit

Background

A story event occurs that causes the Earth's nations to unite in the effort to colonize another planet in our solar system. They have dedicated 730 Billion U.S. dollars annually (approximately one-third the global military budget to achieve this goal.

I have chosen Venus to be the planet for colonization.

  • The project will take 30 years (22 Trillion USD total investment from concept to occupation of Venus).
  • It will cost $?.??/ton to move the ship and its cargo to Venus.
  • A maximum of 30% of any ship's total mass is payload.

Question

What are science-based reasons why Venus would be the superior choice compared to other planets?

Please note that this is the first of two questions. The second question will ask for scientific reasons why Venus is not the better choice. If you're tempted to provide a frame challenge to this question, it should instead be submitted as an answer to the second.

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18
  • $\begingroup$ I'm glad you put this here! I have some questions. First, just for perspective, US military spending is about 40% of world total, so theoretically, the US could fund the project alone and still spend the usual amount on its military. The vast majority of countries spend almost nothing on military. The bottom 30 countries each spend less than a billion, the bottom 20 less than half a billion. The bottom 70 spend less than about 5 billion each. A question that arises here is: why are we focused on the money angle that you chose? Does it matter if Zambia cuts a cheque for 12 million? (cont) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 21 at 22:57
  • $\begingroup$ The reason why I ask about the money focus is that a) your plot doesn't mention money or funding at all and b) your underlying query doesn't seem to be money focused either. Your question seems to be about location. You might consider keeping the economics out of this question because it might lead to some confusion or might hamper the answers you get. Second, since money will eventually be part of the story, are we to consider the limitations of budget when determining the location for this colony? To me, it seems like a very small budget for a colony on another planet. (cont) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 21 at 23:03
  • $\begingroup$ Especially Venus which seems to be particularly hostile to human people and their machines. I'd therefore suggest splitting off the economics and making a follow-up question. So, my plan would be: Q1 --- "If money were not at issue, where should this colony be sited, given the overall world constraints and plot layout?" Q2 --- "Given the global nature of the solution, what would be a sensible total budget for the project? Either a lump sum, or spread over x years." Q3 --- "Bonus! Would this be feasible if spending is limited to 30% of world military spending over 30 years?" $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 21 at 23:07
  • $\begingroup$ I think this plan would take your overall query and give the underlying factors the focus they deserve as well as the focus we need here for SE. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 21 at 23:10
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks! The question was modified based on early "not focused enough" comments to include a budget and to focus on an AI incident. Are you proposing to put Q1-3 in the same post? I also received several answers along the lines of "You can't outrun an AI so what's the point?" which didn't really address my question. I'd also like to make sure people don't waste their time providing that kind of answer. $\endgroup$
    – phil1008
    Commented Jan 21 at 23:51
  • $\begingroup$ To summarize what I just wrote on your Meta question: as written, (3) is storybuilding, we don't allow debates or discussions, and brainstorming is hugely limited. We can help explain why Venus is a good spot, but we're not in the business of helping you write your story. Thus, the question must be written from the perspective of, (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jan 22 at 0:33
  • $\begingroup$ ... "my society has X resources to work with and I want Y to be the result. What about X and Y can I use to rationalize decision Y?" With your permission, I'll gladly edit this post to show you a version of what would be acceptable. You can always roll the edit back to the original if you don't like it. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jan 22 at 0:33
  • $\begingroup$ Permission granted! $\endgroup$
    – phil1008
    Commented Jan 22 at 8:03
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    $\begingroup$ No, I'm suggesting that Q1, Q2, & Q3 be separate queries. I figured you probably got a comment about the budget. The reason I recommend splitting that into its own question is that it really doesn't help us with the location of the project, especially when so much money is being spent over a long period of time. I agree with you about the AI comment. If those were actual answers, you can certainly downvote them! You can add a comment saying something like "this has nothing to do with the question at all." But never fear! We here at Worldbuilding are experts at wasting our time on all (cont) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 24 at 2:57
  • $\begingroup$ (cont) kinds of answers! The best way to do this however, at least in my opinion, is to think of your title question as the main thing you want answered. The body of your question should always support your title. So, extraneous considerations, like budgets and like AI itself, are best left out, or put into a subsequent question. Generally, well written questions have four parts: 1. is the title; 2. is a short background / description of the world or setting; 3. is the main points you want us to consider (this could be your goals, things that you're not interested in, etc) and (cont) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 24 at 2:58
  • $\begingroup$ (cont) 4. is a recapitulation of the question, usually with a bit more detail that is placed in the title and 5. is a short section where you tell us the measuring stick by which you'll measure our answers - what makes a good answer, what makes a bad answer. (NB: I couldn't edit my previous, so read "five" in stead of "four".) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Jan 24 at 3:03
  • $\begingroup$ I've made a proposed edit and I apologize that this too so honking long. Please remember to use @*name* to ping people. (e.g., @phil1008) I produced an edit that reflects the objective one-specific-problem-to-solve format Stack Exchange requires. To be honest, I don't know if you're going to get altogether useful answers as I find it difficult to believe Venus would ever win out over Mars. But that's the purpose of the question. I do have some concerns. (a) You're not using "mass budget" the way the space industry does. ... $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 2:52
  • $\begingroup$ ... I tried to convert that to something sensible like dollars-per-ton to move payload to Venus, but there are a lot of variables that people will complain about not knowing, like exactly how much mass we're talking about. Expecting us to figure out how much payload over the entire project will be expected is way, way, way out of scope. I'm not even sure it's possible. Therefore, this is really a "money is no object" question looking for purely scientific reasons why Venus is good/bad. (b). OK, (b) was "you'll have a hard time beating Mars" issue. Got ahead of myself. Ah! ... $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 2:54
  • $\begingroup$ ... (c) You might have a problem with on-topic finite list of things vs. off-topic infinite list of things perspective. We really don't like brainstorming questions. However, this kinda isn't brainstorming but is, IMO, a finite list of things question. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Mar 25 at 2:57
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    $\begingroup$ No, too much work to make it through the gauntlet. $\endgroup$
    – phil1008
    Commented Aug 20 at 7:31
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What would it be like at the Lagrange point of my world?

I have an ice cream sandwich world*. It looks more or less like the one in the link. The “stars” in mine aren’t actual stars, they’re large glass-like orbs that give off light. There are five larger ones (one is mountain size, the rest are about half that) and about ten thousand smaller ones (bouncy ball size). Each half of the world is about the same density as Earth (I might change this). Assume the stars have the same density as glass. What would the gravity be like in between the halves? Would it be zero g, or something totally different? Would going near a star cause a noticeable change in gravity?

*A world like an ice-cream sandwich?

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    $\begingroup$ Hi, Zona. Welcome to Worldbuilding! You should make the topic of the question match the body of the question. LaGrange points for mountain-sized satellites would be either inside the satellite or so near the surface that putting something in orbit there would be nonsensical. Gravity between your sandwich plates would all be pulling towards the cylindrical axis, with a very mild bias towards the surface of whatever plate you're next to. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 9 at 19:13
  • $\begingroup$ Such a world doesn't have LaGrange points. Please research the shell theorem to better understand the nature of gravity between things (this will keep you from getting downvoted, and might answer your question). Finally, please remember that you're allowed to ask one and only one question per post. Asking more than one question is literally a reason to close questions. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 11 at 19:41
  • $\begingroup$ Is this question still active? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 20 at 7:26
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The link to the question i submited on the main site before i posted it here : https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/posts/260082/timeline

Maybe the subject isn't as interesting as I thought ?
Anyway, it seems i didn't ask the question properly so i'm submitting it here to have advice on how i can ask better questions.



I'm writing around a RPG module in an ancient Egyptian like setting.

What I want to do:

I want to add a fun but realistic heavy jurisdiction session based on the bureaucratic hell trope. This jurisdiction will include choosing an insurance coverage plan from diverse companies.
I think the insurance will cover the group as a whole, not an individual. (but I'm open to modification if necessary.)
Each plan provides various combinations of coverage and choosing a coverage will be deliberately difficult.

The context (and what can be source of a resource expenditure) :

The country is in an ancient Egyptian setting, with high magic.

New pyramids just appeared out of the sand.
The government is okay with the adventurers exploring them, but only if insurance is provided, and if they can get a percentage of the treasure found inside. Only two groups can and will be in the pyramid at the same time.

Some guards and medics will wait at the entry of the pyramid, to heal or defend the outside from the danger that will eventually get out. I will refer to them as the pyramid guard.They normally don't intervene inside the pyramid.
The character can still request help, but any action of the guard directly caused or asked by the characters will be at a substantial cost, that may or may not be covered by the insurance.

The government demand specific coverages:

  • Cost of restoration of archeological items and art damaged by the explorers
  • Cost of ressources expanded by the pyramid guard to protect the outside from something directly caused by the explorers

Options that is not needed but still proposed to the adventurers :

  • One revive spell per exploration
  • One curse removing
  • Eventual cost of a body repatriation team
  • Cost of other guard intervention, up to 1000 po

What i'm asking

I'm asking for coverage or additional reasons for insurance coverage. Of course I'm also open for suggestion and critics.
Thanks in advance !

law archeology

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    $\begingroup$ I don't think the tag Internal-Consistency is appropriate here, by putting it i meant that i want to keep thing consistent. After a second lecture i think i'll remove it. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 13:58
  • $\begingroup$ The challenge you'll run into with insurance is that it's basically equivalent to placing a bet. Your adjusters will need to understand what the dangers are and what the probability of them occurring is. They'll want to state, "If X happens, we will provide Y, up to limit Z". Overall, this can be very dry and boring, Continued... $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 14:23
  • $\begingroup$ There are a few writers who have made this kind of thing interesting. Terry Pratchett and Charles Stross come to mind. They do so by presenting the mundane aspects of the arcane in a way that causes an extreme mental conflict. A good example is Stross's Residual Human Resources. Basically, they re-animate the corpses of previous employees to act as janitors and security guards. The sensible logic conflicts with our oog factor to give us a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance. I think that's what you're looking for, but you're just asking for a list of coverages. Continued... $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 14:33
  • $\begingroup$ The list of things that might go wrong on an expedition is pretty long. A normal insurance company would just specify payout based on damage type (death), not based on how the damage occurred (necrotic rot). The obstacle to this question on this site is that it's a brainstorming question, and we come down pretty hard on them. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 14:36
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks for you help ! Terry Pratchet is absolutely the kind of humor i unconsciously wanted to use for this session. I will check on Charles Stross as it looks really interesting. It look in fact boring and incomplete as i described it and i can understand that. I may have missed some detail like a mandatory evaluation before proposing a coverage plan. I tried to not include all the things i planned to do around this idea of insurance because i considered it out of topic, it may have been a mistake. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 15:13
  • $\begingroup$ Still i can't understand how it's a brainstorming question. Maybe because i don't fully understand what a brainstorming question is. Is it a questions where ideas are requested ? I tried to compare my question to this one : worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/210664/… If I change a bit the formulation, This question and mine seem to have in common the form : Can you give me some "non-combat uses | reasons" to have a "mech | insurance". Still the mech question wasn't qualified as a brainstorming question. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 15:13
  • $\begingroup$ A brainstorming idea is a question where there are many possible answers, and there is no way to identify "best". It wrecks our scoring system. If you're asking "why would I need insurance," then some reasons will be better than others, and it can result in revelations about how insurance works. If you ask to list items that might need to be insured, the list itself is effectively endless, and none of the items belong on it more or less than other items. continued... $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 17:03
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ You list specific items that you can see needing to be covered, and ask for others. A better question might be to ask how real-world archeological expeditions are insured. You might expand it by asking, "In the real world, what does insurance coverage for similar endeavors look like?" You can leave it up to the answerers to define similar endeavors. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 17:06
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    $\begingroup$ Okay i think i get it. Questions with endless answer are not a good match for WB. Thanks a lot for your suggestions ! I needed third party thinking on the subject and it gave me ideas for continuing my research. I'll take note and surely try to ask again on this subject in the future. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 17 at 17:37
  • $\begingroup$ To underscore what @RobertRapplean said, consider the difference between off-topic questions asking for an infinite list of things (question is too broad, open-ended, all answers have equal value, etc. see help center) vs. an on-topic question asking for a finite list of things (question is well focused, expects a short list, contains limitations/restrictions/conditions). It's a fine line, however. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jul 29 at 4:19
  • $\begingroup$ Is this question still active? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 20 at 7:26
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks for your explication ! I missed the notification. No it is not longer active, i will eventually ask for more information later, but for now i'll just have to work on it. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 22 at 9:23
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Title: Ancient warfare without horses

The civilisations of my world are spread over several large islands close by each other. Trade routes for copper and tin make possible various development stages of Bronze Age cultures.

My story is set primarily on an island roughly the size of Greece and partially inspired by the Hellenistic world. There exist a number of city states that try to outperform each other and sometimes need to band together to ward off external enemies.

Their warriors are built around various spear-wielding martial traditions, just as there existed many different kinds of ancient Greek phalanxes made up of Hoplites and similar. The protagonist of my story is an external foe that will try to break into the realm of these city states and I imagined them to ultimately face Macedonian-style heavy phalanxes after some initial headway, as these seem to have been the most developed version of Greek phalanxes in ancient times.

My worry is whether such a heavy phalanx could reasonably develop in a world without any horse equivalent. No one rides any animals into battle, although there are slow beasts of burden for logistical purposes in some places.

In my understanding, the mixed troops built up around the Macedonian phalanx were meant to defend the phalanx’ back and flanks as well as break the enemies' formation while the phalanx keeps them engaged. To what degree are military strategies based on and therefore the development of such heavy infantry viable when no one has greater mobility than that of a lightly equipped human? This lack of mobility seems to hinder how a Macedonian phalanx was supposed to work.

Probable tags:

ancient-history, bronze-age, military, strategy, tactics

Why I’m trying to ask this question:

I’m mainly interested in how warfare at the junction of Hellenistic city states, Roman empires etc. would have looked like without any animals that can participate in battle or even be ridden for swift delivery of messages. From what I’ve read, during Roman republican times there may have only been a few hundred or less horses per legion, but clearly these animals were important enough to warrant major investments into them. During imperial times and the medieval ages horses made up more and more of the battle force of each army and military campaign until infantry became almost irrelevant unless they were specifically meant to counter horses.

So I’m having trouble telling how impactful a lack of such animals would be even in early times. No fast messengers, no chariots, no chasing enemies and navigating into the back of your foe at speed too great for them to react to.

However, I felt this would be too broad to ask, so I’m trying to focus it on the question if a very heavy phalanx had made sense as a sort of local apex of infantry development or if the assumptions of warfare are now so different that it wouldn’t stand out as particular useful anymore.

Addressing comments: I refer to battle formations consisting of spear wielding warriors. To the best of my limited knowledge these are called phalanxes, I have not found a more specific term for that. I do not intent to ask whether rectangle formations in general would have developed, but whether a highly specific version, that of the Alexander-style/Macedonian-style phalanx, could still have developed to be the highest form of spear wielding ancient warfare in a world without mounts. Given the large amounts of research on why warfare works the way it works I do not believe this is any more opinion based than other questions I could ask about military strategy, which seems to be on topic according to the existing tags. I hope to receive help to focus this question enough to qualify for this site.

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  • $\begingroup$ Please take the time to carefully read the tour and the following three Help Center pages: help center, help center and help center. Stack Exchange has specific expectations for the nature of questions asked on its service and this question, I believe, fails several of SE's prohibitions. At best, you're asking if your idea is believable (not our problem, if you think about it). At worst you're asking for research help (also not our problem.) (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 11 at 18:40
  • $\begingroup$ ... But what concerns me the most is why you think a phalanx wouldn't develop? A phalanx is merely an infantry arrayed in a square, usually heavily armored. The only practical difference is what weapons they'd use (no need for pikes...). Thus, I don't see where you are asking for help solving a specific, focused, and reasonably objective problem with the expectation of selecting a single best answer (that's SE's modus operandi). Is there a problem to solve? $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 11 at 18:42
  • $\begingroup$ Thank you, BTW, for working through this in the Sandbox. This is the right place to work on learning how to ask a question in a way that makes Stack Exchange and the users happy. It's daunting at first, but you'll get the hang of it. You might also do a bit of searching on the Stack as I'm sure questions about combat without horses have been asked before (though not this one, as I remember). $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 11 at 18:47
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH I have tried to further specify what I am trying to ask and what I mean by phalanx. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 12 at 16:57
  • $\begingroup$ Thanks for the clarifications. I understand what you're trying to ask, but I think there's two expectations I need to be clear about. (a) Our Stack is here to help you build the rules of an imaginary world. Those rules can be anything you want - including "real world realistic," but those kinds of questions are always problematic on a site that allows any rule at all and isn't constrained to the Real World. (b) Whether or not anything could happen is always opinion-based. Nobody knows definitively if something could or could not happen, we only know what did happen. (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 13 at 2:07
  • $\begingroup$ ... Thus, questions of the form, "I'm developing a Hellenistic/Macedonian-style world without horses or any other form of cavalry. I want heavy phalanxes of the type (insert detailed explanation here). Without horses, what combat influence is necessary to rationalize those phalanxes?" are our sweet spot. While "Is this possible?" isn't because there's literally no way to know. Everything's only a best guess, the definition of opinion-based. (c) Out of curiosity, why does it matter if it could be proven possible or not? Will you abandon your story if it's not? Seems a waste of a good idea. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 13 at 2:11
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Title: Roughly how sensitive would this ice-creature's hearing be?

Tags: magic, science-fiction, mythical-creatures, anatomy, ice

Say you have a creature whose body is mostly or entirely made of ice, which is like normal ice in most ways except for being alive, slightly magical, slightly resistant to melting, and able to move and change its own body structure. Assuming it mimicked the structures of fine hairs we have in our ears (or something analogous to it), how well would it be able to hear?

Constraints

  • The ice may contain a skeletal structure of sorts to provide structural integrity, but does not have any biological organs.
  • The ice-body can intrinsically sense pressure, temperature, and similar -- anything that would have a physical effect on normal ice.
  • The magic is mostly limited to movement/animation of the ice and, through that, whatever happens to be inside it.
  • The environment is Earth-typical and, if required, you may assume the temperature is 20°C (room temperature). The creature can regenerate any ice it loses from melting.
  • Answers that propose a different hearing mechanism that I may not be aware of are also welcomed, especially if they take advantage of the physical properties of ice.

What I've got so far

It looks like ice crystals can be small enough to mimic the fine 'hairs' used to sense sound-vibrations, since both those and hair cells have measurements in micrometers. I know that the number of these is significant, but can't figure out what the sensitivity might be (how good its hearing is, in other words), given the fundamental differences between biological structures and ice.

[Sandbox note: I tried looking into the evolution of hearing, since I figured simpler things would be easier to emulate, but everything I've found so far is pretty vague. Is it worth mentioning in the question body?]

Note that I am aware of the lack of cochlear amplifier or similar at this stage, and so I expect that it wouldn't be able to hear nearly as well as a human -- I want to know what the starting point without that would be.

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  • $\begingroup$ Hi, Indigo. My first question would be "how magical?" The detail about cochlear hairs that make them useful is that they're flexible, like a guitar string. Ice tends to be brittle, but magical ice might be flexible. Or it might break, but immediately regrow. Your ear drum is like that, too. Can you make ice thin enough to pass vibrations without shattering? If you're going with pure physics, the answer is no, but magic is all about breaking physics, so that may make your question unanswerable. Once you put magic into the mix, it's a story telling detail. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 16 at 16:17
  • $\begingroup$ @RobertRapplean Aw hmm, I actually didn't know that would be such a significant difference! I think I need to take a bit to consider. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 16 at 16:34
  • $\begingroup$ Questions like this fall into my "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Answer: As many as wanting" category. Assuming you've met @RobertRapplean's expectations and ignoring the scientific reality that hearing sensitivity isn't defined entirely by hair and the ear drum (the nervous system and brain are involved, too), this question is trivially answered by saying, "if you mimic a human ear, you'll have human sensitivity. If you mimic an elephant's ear, you'll have elephantine sensitivity." I expect people would point that out very quickly and down vote. (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 17 at 5:25
  • $\begingroup$ ... Having read what I just wrote, do you still have a question? If so, let's refine it. BTW, you'll have people complain about pairing the magic and science-fiction tags. I recommend you pick the one that best describes the focus you're looking for in answers and drop the other one. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 17 at 5:25
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH thank you for the advice! Science-fiction is the more relevant tag here, so I'll remove the magic one. I've just been wondering how to update the question now -- would it be too broad to request a mechanism by which it could hear sounds? $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 20 at 10:29
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    $\begingroup$ We're back to the same problem: use the human mechanism, hear like a human. Use the elephant mechanism, hear like an elephant. Can you tell me why you're asking this question? Maybe that will lead us. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Aug 21 at 2:24
  • $\begingroup$ Unsure if this is helpful, but "In 2021, researchers at Zhejiang University in Hangzhou, China, created elastic ice microfibers that are thinner than human hair and can bend without breaking." You can probably look that up to learn more? $\endgroup$
    – Alendyias
    Commented Oct 3 at 0:59
  • $\begingroup$ @Alendyias that is super helpful, thank you! $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 4 at 2:43
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Title: The Effect of a Fantasy Metropolis on Surrounding Towns

Tags: Magic, Fantasy, Society, Economy, Cities, Towns

Background: I'm building a high fantasy world as a homebrew tabletop setting, that would have its own interesting cultures etc, but works off standard fantasy incarnations. So far, I've built out an large island continent where a race of long lived people that have unified as a nation after some infighting and have discovered a type of magic that lets them manipulate natural materials with ease (Geomancy that lets them widen rivers and Pluck huge stone blocks out of Hills at a significant pace, etc). This has led to a massive redevelopment of the land and Especially the Coastal Capital City that sits on the mouth of a major River, turning it into a Big Metropolis. Such Advancements include:

  • Massive Redevelopment over pre-existing Capital city, newer and larges spaces from government, to residential, industrial, commercial buildings/functions etc
  • Widening of the city crossing river, from its oceanside mouth all the way along to the far end of the counties coast, greater boat trading potential
  • Development of a Magic Food System that helps offset new population needs and loss of local Farm Lands (This food system is localized to the city and has a lack of presence outside the city.)
  • Timeframe: Basic City to Current State Metropolis over the course of 50 years, aided by the Geomancy magic that helps shift local natural resources to the site and shape them much faster than conventional methods, allowing this complicated metropolis to be built in a relatively fast time.
  • Level of Tech/Magic: Conventional High Fantasy, regular folk have Late antiquity/medieval where these long lived people are more Late Medieval/Early Renaissance. Magic may help facilitate magic food and geomancy but it's not without limits. (For sake of discussion, think DND)

Main Question: When a City/Metropolis of this size and development is made, I didn't consider how it might affect the local towns around it. Thus I ask, What would the net effect be for local towns when a fantasy metropolis is established in the region as a capital, given that the Metropolis is Successful and Growing? Clearly the town upstream of the Capital might benefit from the increased trade on the river, but would it simply become an extended suburb of the Metropolis, and grow to fuse with the city's size? Would it suffer from the encroaching urbanization mass that is taking up local farmland and falling apart as its population moves to the city for better opportunities? If you could provide examples of relevant situations to my Q, please provide them.

I've added a rough image of the situation to help visualize the intended idea. I'll try to answer additional context questions if that would help. Thank you for your consideration!

Rough Planning of New Capital City

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    $\begingroup$ I suspect that this question would get closed as being too opinion based. The effect of such a city on the surrounding area would be entirely dependent upon the political climate of the area. You'd have some fearful and wanting to attack, some would try to get the magic for themselves, some would just try to hire them, etc. Any description of how they mix would be us telling you a story. Worldbuilding exists to help flesh out your world, not to tell you how the plot line would develop. $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 29 at 15:10
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    $\begingroup$ Minor points on words/typos: * next city "upstream", not "downstream" * last paragraph: "...to my Q, please search them" - why "search"? Do you mean "provide?" $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Aug 29 at 15:10
  • $\begingroup$ Did you consider checking an existing city and its urban development? Try find a city on earth, which resembles your geography (river mouth, rough size and position of the main town at the coast). I see similarities for France or Spain or "Rotterdam" in Europe maybe. Try find a prototype city and study its history. In general keep in mind: Yes, smaller cities will benefit from the capital in the vicinity. Almost any prototype city on earth will tell you that in one way or another. $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Aug 29 at 15:15
  • $\begingroup$ Asking about the net effect of a city's growth on all the surrounding settlements is a very broad question. Too broad for this site. What is preventing you from figuring this out for yourself? Try asking us for help resolving that specific impediment rather than deciding how events in your world will play out for you. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Aug 29 at 22:37
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    $\begingroup$ Thank you for all the comments so far, its been very insightful for me! I agree I need to work on the scope of my question, I feel my project is a bit all over the place and I need to go back and commit some more details to my world before crafting more a focused question for this space. Thanks again! $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 30 at 15:10
  • $\begingroup$ I got an idea of how you might put your question to gain the insight you want (probably). I think you are interested in the factors that potentially could influence your scenario. Like in "Which economical or sociological consequences would arise and need to be tracked when describing a scenario like this". Make a specific sentence on: No brainstorming intended! If you can pinpoint one aspect, maybe with historical backup, that would already be great and helpful! You could also outline some examples you found. For example: Trading routes, population growth, security/war influence, etc. $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Sep 3 at 14:39
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    $\begingroup$ I cannot guarentee that this question will not be closed again tho. The only thing I can tell you is: Closing does not mean you did anything wrong or are unwanted here. It is just telling you, that the community does not know how to help you and asks for update. The intention is not to prohibit you from posting. On the contrary: You are very welcome to update the text of your question and make the approach to an answer easier/more focused etc. You also always can ask for direct assistance in the comments of your closed question. I for one have a close eye on them, maybe others as well. $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Sep 3 at 14:42
  • $\begingroup$ But you need to post a comment or an update to the question and ask for reopening, or else nothing will be done about it. You know, if the question was closed and you do not at least ask in the comments: "Can anyone assist in improving the question? I have no idea what went wrong or how to figure out a better focus" - then you will (probably) get help (maybe even @Antares if you feel it is needed). If you just accept the closing and remain silent anyone thinks: Okay there is no interest of the OP to update anything. Which almost certainly is not true, I figure. $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Sep 3 at 14:47
  • $\begingroup$ (a) the question is too broad, violating the Book Rule (see help center). What the "net affect" is could be anything: cultural & psychological, technological, agricultural, and hundreds of other things. You need to explain exactly what kind of impact you're worried about. (b) Asking more than one question is literally a reason to close questions. You're asking several. Granted, it's somewhat train-of-thought, but it's nevertheless a close reason. If the other questions are an effort to better narrow the "main question" then you need to work on narrowing the "main question." $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Sep 4 at 15:18
  • $\begingroup$ Please don't forget to prune comments every now and then! This will help anyone who comes in later so they don't have to read our (often lengthy) comments, only to find out that the OP either edited the question or otherwise addressed their usefulness! $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Sep 8 at 2:46
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A little imaginative riddle: Pressure Plates in a Dungeon

I am unsure if this kind of question would have fans here or would just be closed for whatever reason. So I appreciate your feedback on that aspect as well as on improving the text.


Imagine Sir Kunibold, a knight and adventurer, enjoying his favorite hobby: Dungeon exploration!

He is a few levels deep into the lair of some ominous villain, as he enters a room finding a door he needs to open. But this is prevented by a mechanism involving two pressure plates.

He figures that the plates need to be pressed at the same time in the most synchronized fashion possible, but...

  • Kunibold is alone and cannot recruit any other creatures or summon them

  • In the corners of the room are various piles of stuff to search and find things he needs to overcome this obstacle

  • There is a small flow of water coming from the ceiling

  • Kunibald has enough air, food and torch light to not be hampered by that.

What does Kunibold need to do in order to open the door?

Describe your blueprint, machinery or actions that Kunibold needs to perform.

  • You can come up with (almost) any items you need for your plans
  • Available items/materials must "typically" be found in a dungeon (things made out of wood, cloth, iron, some tools)
  • You need to list all items with a numbered list
  • Providing sketches of the constructions are encouraged
  • The less items you need to maximize the synchronized pressing, the better you have helped Kunibold!

Infos

  • Pressure plates are 60x60 cm in size (2x2 ft), 3m apart (10ft)
  • Pressure plate's pressure needed to press is 10kg each (22lbs)
  • The door is magically, indestructible sealed and can only be passed if the plates are used to open it
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  • $\begingroup$ What's "typically found in a dungeon"? Why not throw stuff - does he not have two arms? $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 4 at 21:25
  • $\begingroup$ @Escapeddentalpatient: How do you synchronize the throw, it would not work if pressed one after another. I edited to make that more clear maybe? $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Sep 4 at 21:28
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    $\begingroup$ Seems obvious and trivial to me, but arm swinging wouldn't seem unreasonable. Barring that a stick with weights on each end lowered from the middle. I'm not sure there's a worldbuilding question here. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 4 at 21:30
  • $\begingroup$ That would probably the most straight forward solution, yeah. But maybe something more creative and more accurate could be "invented". Maybe it would work if the restriction of items from a dungeon would drop? So you can come up with arbitrary things? $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Sep 4 at 21:31
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    $\begingroup$ But that's a puzzle to be solved by a character in your world, not about the nature of the world or its systems, it wouldn't be on topic (as far as I can tell). $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 4 at 21:33
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    $\begingroup$ Questions asking about what a character should do are not appropriate for this site. We're here to establish facts about a world not describe the actions of characters within a world. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Sep 4 at 21:39
  • $\begingroup$ I figured there would be something like that in the way. Maybe I go to Puzzles and try it there. It's a pitty though, because I was really looking forward to all sorts of creative solutions for this. As in: "If Santa used motorcycles instead of reindeer would he be done faster?" $\endgroup$
    – Antares
    Commented Sep 4 at 23:54
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    $\begingroup$ @Antares That's silly, motorcycles can't fly... ;) $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 5 at 0:52
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    $\begingroup$ So, this is a really good example of a question that doesn't fit at WB.SE! To be blunt, it's not a worldbuilding question so much as a storybuilding question. (This is not the same thing as a "story based" question!) If worldbuilding.codidact ever gets going, this would be a reasonable question over there, because that forum would explicitly allow storybuilding questions of this kind. The reason this isn't a worldbuilding question is that it is clear that you've already got the world built. You're at the point where you can put characters into situations and consider (cont) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Sep 8 at 2:29
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    $\begingroup$ (cont) how they might interact with the world itself in order to advance narrative. (Essentially storybuilding is what happens when sufficiently enmassed worldbuilding meets narrative.) By definition this is currently beyond the scope of WB.SE. In trying to come up with ways of turning this into a worldbuilding question, I'm afraid there's just not much that can be done. You could consider how magic might come into play, or whether the setting can support the technology. But those really take away the puzzle aspects of your question! $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Sep 8 at 2:31
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Title: Creating a habitable zone in a Cluster World.

A question about the survivability of The Cluster World answered itself in the research phase, the cluster, as it is, will be red hot from a depth of about 1000km from the surface getting hotter the deeper one goes. So same data new question:

Current compositional notes for The Cluster World:

  • Mass of solid material ~5.97x1024kg, solid material density 3000kgm-3

  • Current average density of the cluster is ~2100kgm-3.

  • Current volume of ~2.84x1021m3, radius of ~8785km.

  • Current surface gravity is 5.163ms-2, ~0.53G, escape velocity 9.524ms-1.

  • Currently the initial atmospheric volume is ~8.57x1020m3 (at STP). That's 1.11x1018kg of dry air.

  • The initial gravitational potential energy of the atmospheric gases at this point will be ~8.35x1031J, almost all of which becomes kinetic energy, much of this is eventually converted into waste heat due to frictional collision interactions.

  • Because the "rocky" material is "pinned", due to the magic used to create the overall structure, there is no limit to the temperature that material can reach, the rocky bodies are, in effect, under infinite pressure and cannot boil though they can liquefy. Currently the, very rough, initial temperature at the core will be ~234059K.

  • Current initial volume of water is ~3.624x1012m3, approximately equivalent to the proportional volume of water on Earth.

  • The "core ocean" of the previous question's diagram doesn't initially exist, not as a definable entity separate to the atmosphere, instead there's a roiling sphere of supercritical gas/plasma throwing off geysers that burst into flames as they rise into lower pressure zones. As such water migration can be assumed for any depth/height that dry air would reach.

While keeping the total rocky mass, and rock density, constant can we alter the overall density, and thus the atmospheric, and water, volume, and mass, to create a habitable zone with survivable air pressure, temperature, and water migration?

Light at the habitable level is not a necessity, it is in fact massively preferable that the habitable zone be well below the surface to maintain atmosphere against solar wind stripping due to the lack of magnetosphere.

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  • $\begingroup$ Hi, again. I think that the habitable zones can be anywhere you want them to be. If I were building a world like this, I'd make the original shape roughly spherical, with a surface like a dry stone wall. Then I'd fill with air and water until the habitable pressure zone is right about at the surface. The vast majority of asteroids are only around half a kilometer across, so the only reason to not have a breathable surface would be if you didn't want one. The question is "how thick?" $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 7 at 15:06
  • $\begingroup$ Please only have one active question in the sandbox at a time. If you are no longer actively working to improve a question, such as when you start another sandbox post, you should do your part to take care of the sandbox and clean up your old posts. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Oct 7 at 17:40
  • $\begingroup$ @RobertRapplean Yes if it was being built deliberately by someone who understood what was going to happen that would be the way to go but this is a case of "a bumbling mage did a thing, what happens next?" so there are no tidy solutions. $\endgroup$
    – Ash
    Commented Oct 8 at 5:13
  • $\begingroup$ @Ash, You are the arbiter of providence. How would it best suit you for it to turn out? Oh, one question. Can people dig and garden? Does erosion happen? I haven't gotten around to answering your last question, but I presume that there would be some kind of water cycle. The waterfalls would be amazing. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 8 at 6:17
  • $\begingroup$ @RobertRapplean Dig yes, erosion kind of, there will be a soil layer where the dust fraction is brought down by the winds and up by geysers that will be quite fertile if it isn't sterilised by local conditions. I thought it would have a water cycle, and possibly a liquid air cycle deeper down as well, but the thermal energy numbers I'm getting, (which I'm hoping are wrong, tonight's mission is checking them from a different angle), make me wonder if instead there will be a fusion explosion a few minutes after the atmosphere is put in place. $\endgroup$
    – Ash
    Commented Oct 8 at 6:57
  • $\begingroup$ You're a couple orders of magnitude too small for fusion. If you're talking about the force of falling inward, just presume that said energy is going the same place that rotational momentum is going. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 8 at 14:55
  • $\begingroup$ @RobertRapplean Yeah couple of orders short of fusion but the interior is going to be red hot at an altitude/depth where it's still in vacuum and get much worse from there. Final check of the math was not encouraging, unfortunately as it stands it's uninhabitable if left to itself, too dense, too much energy. $\endgroup$
    – Ash
    Commented Oct 9 at 4:35
  • $\begingroup$ @RobertRapplean So change of direction, current numbers don't work; lets find numbers that do. $\endgroup$
    – Ash
    Commented Oct 12 at 11:32
  • $\begingroup$ @ash, I think your model is fine. You just have to use some of the same magic you use on the rocks to move a portion of the air. Your wizard picks the portion so that the heat balance is whatever you want it to be. If you want long-term stability, you can even find a few asteroids with fissionables and put those in the center where they'll act to maintain the heat. This is totally doable. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 13 at 17:44
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Title:So how accurate is this thesis when it comes to the implementation of firearms in any setting?

So, I asked a similar question a few months ago, and ultimately decided to just not have firearms in my setting entirely. Like the advancement of magic and the like was favored over mechanical weaponry much like in Full Metal Alchemist:Conqueror of Shamballa where it's revealed that in eds world the advancement of alchemy took precedent over the steam engine.

But I digress, I settled on this because no matter what I did I could not think of a scenario where one didn't eventually overshadow the other eventually. Sure, they could coexist for a time, but eventually it would get to the point where guns would overshadow magic and traditional weaponry due to mass production, or Magic and weaponry would overshadow firearms as one had the potential to become strong enough to take on whole companies of gun users by themselves.

I just could not think of anything that could reconcile this indefinitely. Either guns would feel like ineffective peashooters because there was little reason to use them over bows and crossbows, or they would become so powerful the entire landscape of battle would be centered around dealing with them whether you chose to use guns yourself or not.

So, I ultimately decided to just not have guns in my writing altogether, and say this is a world where magic and weaponry such a swords, bows, spears, etc continued developing and even if they would figure out something similar to a gun it was brushed aside as there was no real tangible benefit anybody could see over existing weaponry and spellcasting.

So is there a way to make it so firearms even modern day ones won't overshadow other types of weapons and make them irrelevant?

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    $\begingroup$ That's better, thanks. It does contain quite a bit of personal commentary. Is there any way to pare it down to be more to the point? $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 17 at 3:09
  • $\begingroup$ This depends on your worldbuilding philosophy as much as anything else. How you choose to build worlds is as much a factor as any facts you choose to establish about the world's you build. For example, perhaps you are OK deciding a fact of your world is simply that non-firearms are not irrelevant. This topic is one we regularly have people asking about I'd strongly suggest using our search features to check if there isn't a suitable question already out there for your specific world. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Oct 17 at 8:58
  • $\begingroup$ what is your real question? justifying firearms and swords/bows/spears both being relevant for warfare OR firearms and magic, both being relevant for warfare? $\endgroup$
    – datacube
    Commented Oct 17 at 11:18
  • $\begingroup$ Just to note, variations of this have been asked many times. The usual upshot is people start to quote the Dune books: "[....] the slow blade penetrates the shield." and point out that the reason must ultimately come down to lack of utility of firearms (I'd argue that expense or difficulty might also qualify). My question is, does it really need explaining, or is it something that you can simply omit on the basis that your readership won't miss what it's never seen? $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 17 at 15:14
  • $\begingroup$ If there are any strict constraints on what magic can do in your world, listing them would help constrain the space of answers. And do you especially care about high levels of combat realism? DC/Marvel superheroes, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Warhammer all just have normal non-invincible humans with swords that are effective in a setting with ubiquitous machine guns, without any justification that could hold water, and I'm pretty sure they're the four most popular scifi/fantasy settings with machine guns in that order. $\endgroup$
    – g s
    Commented Oct 17 at 15:45
  • $\begingroup$ Because there's always people that are gonna be asking "Why don't they just make guns if they are so advanced technologically" like a bunch of redundant mouthbreathers. Because yes a faction is technologically advanced enough that it would seem kind of silly to NOT have someone eventually come up with something similar unless there's a lore reason behind It. $\endgroup$
    – Masakan
    Commented Oct 17 at 16:25
  • $\begingroup$ @Masakan This is actually a pretty good question, I myself prefer scifi over magical stories but that's besides the point. In anycase you could add a "addional details" section where you add some technical details as to how powerful magic is in your world, if you envisioned anyone being a city killer or more like just being able to fight multiple people, if everyone/anyone can learn magic or just specific people and maybe some limitations if there any, especially since it give a better idea on whether there is a way to rationalize a world where guns and old world weapons are both still used. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 19 at 23:06
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'm writing a book in which a group of people live a very secluded and sheltered existence, separated geographically from the modern world (circa 1980). These people have recently been oppressed by their leader. What began as a peaceful existence has turned into what amounts to a complete loss of personal freedoms. Their once-peaceful society has turned murderous.

The leader justifies his actions and those of his henchmen by citing Old Testament verses. He views his actions as justified by citing -- and grossly, fanatically misinterpreting -- scripture. What the modern world would classify as cold-blooded murder he considers to be either justice or sacrifice.

Here is my wonder: how can I write this so that

Current readers who follow the Bible are not offended and won't think it's me who misinterprets the Bible in this way, and

Readers not familiar with the Bible won't get the idea that all Christian or Jewish people think this way.

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    $\begingroup$ "[....] how can I write this so that [.....]" - this seems to proclaim a writing question. Had you thought of looking at our Writing site? It would be off topic on worldbuilding in its current form. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 20 at 21:00
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    $\begingroup$ A couple things, Nuggethead! The Escaped Dental Patient makes an excellent point: "How can I write..." is a problem because we're not the writing forum. So, your first assignment is: delete that sentence! Next, since your job as a writer is to tell a story, you shouldn't be overly concerned about offending people. Repeat: anything I write is going to offend someone! Third, it does not matter what you write, people will misinterpret what you write. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Oct 21 at 0:19
  • $\begingroup$ If one leapt out at me..... (Writing-wise: I'd at strategic moments write from the POV of another character, an outsider who's interpretation aligns more with the commons - or the POV of an insider whos reaction is righteous doubt of the leader's words - or show enough of their reactions for the reader to make their own minds up. Alternatively, give some internal narrative of the leader who clearly knows what they're doing is wrong according to doctrine and give the reader something to chew on re their motives and thinking. Read Machiavelli's The Prince for inspiration). $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 21 at 0:20
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    $\begingroup$ To be honest, I don't really see a worldbuilding problem here. Once we peel away the writing question all we have left is the setting or world itself, which appears to be an alt-hist or parallel Earth in which there is a cult whose leader is an oppressive egomaniac. Is there anything we can help you with as far as the world or setting itself goes? $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Oct 21 at 0:25
  • $\begingroup$ Cont: or read The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Green similarly. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 21 at 0:26
  • $\begingroup$ "how can I write this so that [...] Current readers who follow the Bible are not offended" 1. As has been pointed out, this isn't a worldbuilding problem 2. it's impossible. People who follow the Bible are most definitely not all the same. This is trivially provable by how many Christian denominations we have today. Historically, there were even more. Even if we focus on a single denomination, there is no way to ensure all people accept or reject a given reading. Some Christians would be against almost any allusion of the Bible being wrong (even if the point is that it's misinterpreted). $\endgroup$
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 21 at 4:38
  • $\begingroup$ Has this question been abandoned? $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 27 at 18:07
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What short message could accelerate the industrial revolution by 100 years?

Extraterrestrials invaded Earth and won. It was a tough fight, but we just weren't technologically advanced enough. However, one of the voyager space probes has discovered a short-lived temporal anomaly. By [handwaved mechanism], this will allow us to write a short message on a piece of rock or metal and deliver it to [point in history convenient to the narrative] that starts the industrial revolution a full century earlier, giving humanity the edge they need to beat the extraterrestrial invaders.

What message of 1000 characters or fewer could be sent back in time to a particular person and point in history that has a plausible chance of causing the industrial revolution to start in the 1600s rather than the 1700s? (I don't need the actual text of the message, but rather when/where the message is going to and what it says.)

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  • $\begingroup$ Tough one to answer at all as there's so many complex factors involved: banking/stock-exchange, agriculture (crop-rotation), the Enlightenment fostering science/engineering, population density increase in the cities etc.. At present any answer is likely to point out the complexity of each of these things and the impossibility of achieving that in such a small message. The whole society would need adjusting, attitudes and all. Any way to narrow this to something that'll elicit a more useful answer? $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 6 at 16:41
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    $\begingroup$ Message to whom? Politicians, the monarch? Why would they even read it? What's the hook? $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 6 at 16:51
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    $\begingroup$ This seems highly dependent upon how people respond to the message. This is probably highly dependent upon the specific circumstances of the messages delivery. Such a broad and character dependent question is not a good fit. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 6 at 17:11
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    $\begingroup$ I just don't see this as a worldbuilding question. There is probably not one single message that can change history as drastically as you want it. Well, or it could be. But it's going to entirely story-related. $\endgroup$
    – VLAZ
    Commented Nov 6 at 17:14
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    $\begingroup$ I could be wrong, but this reads much like a high concept question. These are generally too big to fit will here. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Nov 6 at 19:14
  • $\begingroup$ @elemtilas How could I change the question to not be high concept? What parts of this are improperly scoped or well defined? $\endgroup$
    – Zags
    Commented Nov 6 at 19:54
  • $\begingroup$ This might be considered a duplicate of [1] or maybe [2]. Even if not, we've been asked a lot how to speed up technological development. It's really hard because technology is a pyramid with the latest innovation standing atop millennia of discovery, experience, failure, success, experimentation, etc., etc., etc. (*Continued*) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 6 at 20:07
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    $\begingroup$ You need to ask a different question to not ask a high concept question. Try coming up with your own message and ask us for help if you encounter a much more specific problem. As a rule we're here to help you build your world by answering specific questions. If a question has many equally valid answers or requires us to speculate how events in your world will play out it's not suitable for this site. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 6 at 20:10
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    $\begingroup$ ... In other words, there are so many things that would need to be changed and advanced in so many locations that I don't believe the question can be answered with the hope of an objectively selected best answer. Coal was in use in England from about AD100. So you need metallurgy, the concept of rolling stock, earlier processing of natural gas, earlier development of manufacturing (e.g., faster development of watermill-driven tools). There's so much that would need to be done. I'm not convinced you can hope for just one thing a small message would effect. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 6 at 20:11
  • $\begingroup$ I agree with @sphennings. I think you need to research what led Thomas Newcomen to build the first modern-style steam engine - because it's all of that that needs to be advanced 100 years. If you can narrow his inspiration down to "what minimal changes must happen by 1610 to allow someone in 1610 to invent the steam engine" you might have a question that fits the rules. (It might actually be easier to set your probe date forward 100 years and send a message back to one of the space agency administrators today.) $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Nov 6 at 20:14
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    $\begingroup$ It also depends how much the details of the message matter to you. Skip the details and just say a message triggered a period of scientific advancement to focus on the bits of your world that actually interest you. This question reads more like a discussion prompt than a specific worldbuilding problem. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Nov 6 at 21:49
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    $\begingroup$ I agree that this is truly story-dependent. It doesn't matter what message you write unless it gets to the right person. That person has to have a solid reason to want the information. I'm reminded of the story where Emperor Tiberius had a man killed for inventing aluminum $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 7 at 0:50
  • $\begingroup$ So, to answer your question about how to not make this a high concept question, I think the answer here is you don't. If you're writing a story, this is a rabbit hole you don't need to go down, as there's really nothing of interest about the secondary world to be learned. It becomes an exercise in justifying a plot point that we the Reader have already accepted in reading your story. But let's tease this out a bit. (cont) $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Nov 7 at 1:16
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    $\begingroup$ so what are the aliens' weaknesses? What can be exploited? When you know their weakness, you can make that into the humans' strength. You could therefore ask a question like: my aliens are like X, Y & Z. Where can I poke holes? This is now a matter of worldbuilding, and we can work with that. When this problem is solved, you can take the answers & weigh them and then try them out within your story to see which fits best. $\endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Commented Nov 7 at 1:18
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    $\begingroup$ For those interested in @RobertRapplean's remark about Tiberius and aluminum, this is a better than average discussion that isn't too steeped in the UFO-esque mythos. Thanks, Robert, I found it an interesting quirk of history. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented 2 days ago

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